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I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

localfirstweb.dev

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Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#111

Post by kridsdale1 »

sirjaz wrote: post #83

This gives me hope that we can get native apps back again, and collaborative work through them without the browser or a central authority

Many of us never stopped writing native apps.

When I was at Apple (2010-2015) every app was Local First. In fact they legally had to be to be sold in Germany, where iCloud cannot be mandatory (they have a history of user data being abused).

You’ll notice when the network goes down all your calendars email contacts and photos are still there. The source of truth is distributed.

Client side apps writing to local db with background sync (application specific protocols) works excellently. You just don’t write your UI as a web page.

Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#112

Post by kridsdale1 »

paulgb wrote: post #47
nottorp wrote: post #45

Well, it's always amusing how they discover that applications can run locally without depending on someone else's servers and maybe without pulling unverified code from 50 random repos. Next they'll discover native applications! Innovation! Maybe after that they'll even discover that you can give a shit about the user's battery/power consumption and ram consumption again!

The key in local-first is the _first_. The stated goal is to give people the benefits of local applications (no spinners, data outlives the app) with the benefits of cloud applications (low-friction collaboration).

https://developer.apple.com/icloud/cloudkit/

Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#113

Post by kridsdale1 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #69
nottorp wrote: post #45

Well, it's always amusing how they discover that applications can run locally without depending on someone else's servers and maybe without pulling unverified code from 50 random repos. Next they'll discover native applications! Innovation! Maybe after that they'll even discover that you can give a shit about the user's battery/power consumption and ram consumption again!

This is unnecessarily combative. Local-first does not mean local-only, it means that the app should also work on the internet, meaning that you need to solve sync, which is why it took some time for the concept to gain traction. CRDTs for example are relatively new.

I mean, native apps have been cloud syncing for more than 20 years.

Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#115

Post by rzzzt »

diggan wrote: post #97
rzzzt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no, it's modifying the NAT table and so traffic will not be subjected to inbound rules where you would normally add an "allow HTTPS"-style rule: https://docs.docker.com/engine/network/packet-filtering-fire...

In what way is that "No"? The docs say: > Docker routes container traffic in the nat table, which means that packets are diverted before it reaches the INPUT and OUTPUT chains that ufw uses. Packets are routed before the firewall rules can be applied, effectively ignoring your firewall configuration. So docker is "effectively" ignoring your firewall in the case of ufw. I don't see how it can be considered to not igno…

NAT rules are still firewall (netfilter, iptables - note the plural) territory, ufw is a frontend for iptables to simplify creating rules.

Does Docker violate the principle of least surprise? Yes. Was I bitten by this behavior? Definitely. Does it bypass the firewall? No.

Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#116

Post by genewitch »

tlarkworthy wrote: post #30
bsenftner wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very nice, written up anywhere?

still a WIP but I will write it up properly soon.

Can this be a self-contained alarm and journaling app for cellphones?

Because I can't think of a way to do that without serviceworkers. I mean a way that doesn't involve the end user reading a paragraph of instructions, based on their "OS".

Anyhow, sorry, I just can't tell what it does from the confines of that demo and a cellphone browser...

Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#117

Post by genewitch »

dylan604 wrote: post #67
jmbwell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careening back to inetd and /etc/services …

It's amazing to me all of the fancy new ways eventually evolve into the thing they were trying not to be in the first place. We see this time and time again. I've been around long enough to have seen it in several situations to the point that at the start of the trend someone looks like the old dog refusing to learn a new trick, then eventually people realize they could have saved a lot of time/effort/money by taking…

I have said it before and I am unsure if I stole it: you can recreate nearly any "service" the web/internet has to offer today with only the RFCs prior to April, 1995, with the caveat that I'm technically fine with HTTP; I haven't given it much thought.

I think it was LogStash or Summit Patchy Project, that let you use IRC as a sync for redirecting logs or making a copy. So I made a PCI compliant logging service, immutable ircd (ro fs) that logged to itself via eggdrop locally. All little cattle VMs would have thier logs sourced and synced via logstash to an IRC channel for the vertical the VM "belonged to". All the irc stuff was on an append-only mount on the ircd server, so if audit just snapshot that mount and hand it over.

NOC was in the channels. I think some teams set up dashboard widgets that triggered on irc events.

All that was a POC done completely to prove that it could be done using only stuff from pre-1996 RFCs. I'm sure the company I built it for went with some vendor product instead and I don't blame them, I wouldn't have maintained that - you ever set up ircd? The volume of traffic just for logs was already fun to deal with.

Pedants: I'm working from 15 year old memories and I changed a few details to protect the innocent. I can't remember the project name other than it was a play on "BI" for business intelligence.

Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#118

Post by genewitch »

adolph wrote: post #95
jmbwell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careening back to inetd and /etc/services …

In some ways it is an inversion of inetd. Instead of something that listens to a bunch of ports and launches a port corresponding process, the user has a service that will listen to a random port and they wish to address it in a human-readable kind of way. As far as I know, the hosts file does not afford a port number so a solution would look similar to a proxy on a known port like 443 listening for a particular doma…

Isn't this "service discovery", which, at least, apple had 23 years ago "bonjour"? I'm not claiming that stuff like bonjour (I'm referring to the apparently infringing "rendezvous") and upnp did what we're discussing; but you could hack em to do it.

I know I generally use fing in a pinch, or nmap, or ask the DHCP server for all the hostnamrip mappings and then nmap -A - t5 (that's threat level five - the system I use)

Is this thing on

Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#119

Post by pillefitz »

wim wrote: post #57

Another aspect of local-first I'm exploring is trying to combine it with the ability to make the backend sync server available for local self-hosting as well. In our case we're building a local-first multiplayer "IDE for tasks and notes" [1] where the syncing or "cloud" component adds features like real-time collaboration, permission controls and so on. Local-first ensures the principles mentioned in the article like…

If I can host the backend myself, does it imply it's not a commercial offering?

Re: I wrote a static web page and accidentally started a community (2023)

#120

Post by tobilg »

I created https://sql-workbench.com a while ago, mainly to let people analyze data that's available via http sources, or on their local machines, w/o having to install anything.

A recent project is https://shrink.video, which is using the WASM version of ffmpeg to shrink or convert video in the user's browser itself, for privacy and similar reasons mentioned before.

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