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iOS indie app development looks like

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Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#21

Post by gumby271 »

jll29 wrote: post #11
gumby271 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but does that mean this app doesn't deserve to exist on user's computers if they so choose? Not sure why Apple has a say in that just because they have a massive advantage over every other dev on their platform.

There can be different views on this, I guess. Apple is known to like to exercise control and to keep their ecosystem closed (recall that Jobs was initially AGAINST the AppStore concept entirely, which was invented by someone else and now makes a ton of money for Apple). Open systems with little control lead to a bazar like the various Linux distros with inconsistent-looking and buggy apps mixed with great apps - any…

I guess my disconnect is that the computer that a person owns isn't the same as a store that Apple runs and can carefully curate that runs on that computer. Combining those into one thing strikes me as dangerous, with not much upside. Everything you described can be true while allowing the user to use their computer how they want, it just doesn't make Apple as much money.

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#22

Post by wahnfrieden »

sandoze wrote: post #20
wahnfrieden wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try doing performant infinite scrolling on macOS

I primarily do iOS and iPadOS, but it’s far easier to bridge the gap between all the platforms than the experience I had in the past with UIKit/AppKit. My last MacOS app sadly does not do infinite scrolling. Off the top of my head, I’d consider the approach. Is it a ScrollView? A LazyVStack? What do your view redraws look like? Anyone working with Swift Strings back in Swift 1+2 was in for some shockingly bad perform…

LazyVStack and ScrollView don't scale (no cell reuse / no unloading). The only option is List which has different behaviors and performance characteristics on macOS including issues with eager rendering

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#23

Post by 999900000999 »

I gave up on mobile app dev years ago.

To Apple, I'm not giving you $100 per year for four people to play my hobbyist games. Not to mention getting my account approved in the first place was such a horrible process. They can and will deny your app for random reasons. I don't know how any independent developer really wants to base their entire income around such madness .

What they want is multi-billion companies publishing content consumption apps, and occasionally some slightly smaller multi-million dollar companies might get some sales.

Google used to be cool, but now you need to have 20 or something people download the app to test it first. Which is easy to game if you have enough money ( or I guess you just go out and buy 20 devices yourself, a cheap Android device is going to run you $50 or so).

At least with Android I can point you to my git repository, feel free to download my free APK.

Look at the source code, the build process, install it if you'd like.

However, there's always light. WebGL is at the point where I can publish small games directly onto a web page. No one needs to download anything, and no one needs to worry about me doing something bad.

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#24

Post by sandoze »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #22
sandoze wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I primarily do iOS and iPadOS, but it’s far easier to bridge the gap between all the platforms than the experience I had in the past with UIKit/AppKit. My last MacOS app sadly does not do infinite scrolling. Off the top of my head, I’d consider the approach. Is it a ScrollView? A LazyVStack? What do your view redraws look like? Anyone working with Swift Strings back in Swift 1+2 was in for some shockingly bad perform…

LazyVStack and ScrollView don't scale (no cell reuse / no unloading). The only option is List which has different behaviors and performance characteristics on macOS including issues with eager rendering

To be fair a LazyVStack handles cell reuse and unloading automatically which is why offscreen content that was previously viewed further back on the list will only maintain the root level state (children in the view hierarchy may and will lose state in order to save memory and energy). How that data is loaded and how you key off Identifiable is also important.

Apple’s own documentation discusses this in detail and for large data sets recommends the Lazy approach. If you’re using List you’re in for some issues.

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#25

Post by mertbio »

> we decided to test a sharp pivot just before shutting it down: rename the app, change the concept from a photo vault to a converter disguise, and sell encryption as a feature.

I’m not really convinced that by just changing those you can suddenly get a lot of downloads.

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#26

Post by CharlesW »

jll29 wrote: post #11
gumby271 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but does that mean this app doesn't deserve to exist on user's computers if they so choose? Not sure why Apple has a say in that just because they have a massive advantage over every other dev on their platform.

There can be different views on this, I guess. Apple is known to like to exercise control and to keep their ecosystem closed (recall that Jobs was initially AGAINST the AppStore concept entirely, which was invented by someone else and now makes a ton of money for Apple). Open systems with little control lead to a bazar like the various Linux distros with inconsistent-looking and buggy apps mixed with great apps - any…

> recall that Jobs was initially AGAINST the AppStore concept entirely…

Jobs was initially against allowing third-party native apps on the iPhone, but not App Store as a distribution mechanism. Once he relented on inviting ISVs to the profit party, the iTunes Store model was never in question.

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#27

Post by [deleted] »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #19
sandoze wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many things wrong with this. Reminds me of the Objective-c vs Swift arguments from back in the day. The author mentions the initial release, as someone who held out migrating production apps to Swift until v3 I think we all know early adoption is going to be bumpy. But as of iOS 15+ SwiftUI is very production ready. I’ve migrated two production applications from UIKit to SwiftUI. These have active users and are av…

Try doing performant infinite scrolling on macOS

[deleted]

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#28

Post by wahnfrieden »

sandoze wrote: post #24
wahnfrieden wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LazyVStack and ScrollView don't scale (no cell reuse / no unloading). The only option is List which has different behaviors and performance characteristics on macOS including issues with eager rendering

To be fair a LazyVStack handles cell reuse and unloading automatically which is why offscreen content that was previously viewed further back on the list will only maintain the root level state (children in the view hierarchy may and will lose state in order to save memory and energy). How that data is loaded and how you key off Identifiable is also important. Apple’s own documentation discusses this in detail and fo…

Where do you see that it does cell reuse? It does not... Their docs only talk about lazy loading, not reuse or unloading, eg: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swiftui/creating-p...

This is also why LazyVGrid/LazyHGrid are unusable as replacements for UICollectionView

Yes you can replace SwiftUI with UIKit + AppKit - replace the navigation, the text rendering, the text editing, the collection views, etc.

edit: Your link is all about how to use List

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#29

Post by choxi »

I like SwiftUI, reactive frameworks just make sense to me for UIs. It also interfaces with UIKit in a pretty nice way so you don’t have to commit to one or the other. I’m a newer iOS dev though, I’ve heard many complaints from more experienced devs.

Re: iOS indie app development looks like

#30

Post by wahnfrieden »

999900000999 wrote: post #23

I gave up on mobile app dev years ago. To Apple, I'm not giving you $100 per year for four people to play my hobbyist games. Not to mention getting my account approved in the first place was such a horrible process. They can and will deny your app for random reasons. I don't know how any independent developer really wants to base their entire income around such madness . What they want is multi-billion companies publ…

This article is about making money from the App Store, not distributing hobby projects. App Store is great for making money when that is your goal.

Some of the friction you mention is if anything a competitive advantage to those able to deliver quality work despite the challenges. I agree it's hostile to hobbyist development and early career learning.

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