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Why Google makes the perfect ISP

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41–50 of 59 posts

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#41
post #8

Whether they succeed or not with Fiber, whether it expands to every American city or not and whether they get sued because of antitrust laws (which I don't believe they will), the fact is that they're changing the status quo. Even only scaring the telecom companies enough for them to offer decent plans is a win for Google AND for the customer. Sure Google pursues its own commercial goals but in the end it benefits th…

> "Sure Google pursues its own commercial goals but in the end it benefits the customer as well."

Sometimes. And with no guarantee that such interests will align in the future. Their flip on Net Neutrality is all the warning and reminder consumers should need, to temper their optimism with due caution.

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#42
post #41
post #8

Whether they succeed or not with Fiber, whether it expands to every American city or not and whether they get sued because of antitrust laws (which I don't believe they will), the fact is that they're changing the status quo. Even only scaring the telecom companies enough for them to offer decent plans is a win for Google AND for the customer. Sure Google pursues its own commercial goals but in the end it benefits th…

> "Sure Google pursues its own commercial goals but in the end it benefits the customer as well." Sometimes. And with no guarantee that such interests will align in the future. Their flip on Net Neutrality is all the warning and reminder consumers should need, to temper their optimism with due caution.

Of course, but no other ISP is any better (at least that I know of) and THEY certainly don't offer gigabyte unlimited internet for 70$ a month.

Google being the lesser of all evils here, we can only hope that they will drive the market into a much better state and that if their priorities ever stop aligning with ours, something better will have emerged (just as Fiber is emerging to change the status quo now).

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#43
post #42
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Sure Google pursues its own commercial goals but in the end it benefits the customer as well." Sometimes. And with no guarantee that such interests will align in the future. Their flip on Net Neutrality is all the warning and reminder consumers should need, to temper their optimism with due caution.

Of course, but no other ISP is any better (at least that I know of) and THEY certainly don't offer gigabyte unlimited internet for 70$ a month. Google being the lesser of all evils here, we can only hope that they will drive the market into a much better state and that if their priorities ever stop aligning with ours, something better will have emerged (just as Fiber is emerging to change the status quo now).

The problem is when google starts to target advertising based on your entire online life. For example, currently, google can't really see what you're unloading to dropbox or iCloud or emails you receive (outside of Gmail.) But if they're the ISP, they can start to target advertising based on the documents you upload or files you upload. The information they could collect would be mind-blowing. And you just know that part of their TOS will be "we can do whatever we want with your information."

I don't know if I want one company effectively owning the internet history of every user. If google is able to undercut other providers and they become the only high-quality game in town, then most users will have little choice but to submit to the google beast.

Internet connectivity should be considered a public utility. It shouldn't be subject to intrusive monitoring by the provider. Just like the phone company can't send you targeted adds based on the phone numbers you call, Google shouldn't be able to target ads based on your online activity (when outside the normal google product channels). Gmail isn't a public utility, an ISP is. Can you imagine: "Based on the fact that you uploaded photos of a baby's birthday party, we'd like to show you ads for baby toys." That's like the phone company interrupting your phone call to Paris to advertise airline tickets. Chinese ISPs already have highly intrusive advertising.. ads that effectively take over your browser regardless of what site you're visiting.

The only thing worse than a Google ISP would be a Facebook one.

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#44
You know what'll make google the best ISP? The fact is they only care about getting you online and keeping you there, which is much different to most ISPs who only care about you paying. As long as you've paid that month, why bother when you're offline for a day or two?

Plus I bet they'll have the best first line techs.

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#45

There's always been a touch of Willy Wonka style unreality about Google Fiber. Municipalities across the U.S. know that their broadband sucks, and they wrote proposals to Google in lieu of real action, hoping Google could solve their problems with their magic wand. Google still has a "non-evil" and academic reputation in some quarters, although anybody who makes a living on the streets of the internet knows that Goog…

Maybe I'm missing the point, but what's the problem? It seems to me that the worst senario here is that Google supplants traditional telcos, and essentially becomes another monopoly for >1Gbps web access. Compared with what we have today, I'm pretty happy with that outcome. Actually, the worst outcome will be that the general public doesn't care enough, Google fiber flops, and the traditional model becomes further en…

> I would also be a bit happier with a real, innovative, public broadband program. I don't think the US has the political culture to pull that off.

The political culture is one that caters to specific groups. If it was "broadband for farmers" then you'd get the farm lobby pushing for it. If it was "broadband for the poor" then you'd get the food stamp crowd on board. If it was "broadband for investment banks" then you might get the bank crowd on board.

The fact that most infrastructure doesn't get broad-based political support is a symptom of "what's in it for me." It why it's so difficult to solve problems like Air Traffic Control systems being from the 1970s -- most people think, "I only fly once in a while, so why should I give up in order to pay for upgrading the ATC system?" Sure, many people use the internet, but the average user doesn't think about how much better things could be.

I get it -- broadband would benefit everyone either directly or indirectly, but it's hard to sell those benefits to the general electorate because money for broadband would mean less money for some other, more politically "interesting" project.

I don't think anyone in America (Republican, Democrat, Independent) wants terrible infrastructure. The political hot potato is deciding how to pay for it. Regardless of tax or spending philosophies, it necessarily follows that spending on X takes money from Y. With money we spent for 1 year in Iraq, we could have paid for national broadband (among other things), however we also spend $80 billion per year on food stamps. Both of those priorities however, have some unexpected consequences. The defense contractors make money, but it also creates jobs and stimulates economic output (see WWII). Food stamps also create taxable events and drives economic activity, though both activities, when viewed in purely economic terms are net losses for the economy, the degree of which is outside of the scope of this discussion. Public broadband on the other hand would be a net gain for the economy because increased infrastructure efficiency greases the wheels of the entire economy. Better roads = lower trucking costs and more consumption and therefore more spending and jobs. However, it's hard to quantify those theoretical benefits to the electorate. Same goes for public broadband.

There are some tasks ideally suited for government and utilities, infrastructure, police/fire, defense are certainly among them. Public broadband is more relevant to governmental roles than subsidizing private business (i.e. GM, Fiskar, Solyndra, Bank of America, etc.) Our infrastructure should be "too big to fail," but alas..

/rant truncated

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#46
post #8

Whether they succeed or not with Fiber, whether it expands to every American city or not and whether they get sued because of antitrust laws (which I don't believe they will), the fact is that they're changing the status quo. Even only scaring the telecom companies enough for them to offer decent plans is a win for Google AND for the customer. Sure Google pursues its own commercial goals but in the end it benefits th…

Teksavvy

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#47
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The antitrust implications for this are massive. Google would clearly be subsiding the cost of the broadband with advertising/sales from their online properties. If you are someone like Vimeo, Hulu, Netflix etc then you would forever be at a disadvantage to Youtube due to bandwidth costs. Similarly the proven importance of speed in site popularity and conversions means that an entire raft of competitors would again b…

Are you a lawyer? Antitrust law is complicated. Simply subsidizing or undercutting competitors isn't nearly enough; nor is having a monopoly. For example, it wasn't Microsoft's monopoly that got them in trouble, it's that it leveraged its monopoly on Windows to force a monopoly of the browser (special APIs and restrictive license agreements with OEMs)...not to mention the whole Java thing. Anyways, if someone came ou…

> the UN even declared that the internet is a fundamental basic human right

The UN should stick to prancing around in blue helmets handing out food while ignoring genocide in Tibet.

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#48
post #35

Google's core business is advertising. Google likes to do stuff with the data that passes through its systems. Google has explicitly and pro-actively taken sides in fight against copyright violations instead of remaining a neutral party. And they've been less than steadfast on Net Neutrality, which is a big red flag for a company that wants to be an ISP. This is not about Google being "evil", but I do not want a comp…

Aside from say, Sonic.net, I'd be hard pressed to find a less "evil" company (in terms of conflict of interest - most other major ISPs tend to be wireless carriers or in bed with the entertainment industry or both).

Google may not have it's interests aligned with us end users, but they're a nice contrast to the remainder, and might be forced to play a countering role on the copyright front to differentiate.

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#49
post #27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are clearly in a minority though. I bet that at least 80% of internet marketers hate Google.

Have you used adwords? I have. And it is pretty transparent about almost everything that should be available to the advertiser. They certanly have the website base and actively moniter ads for inapprpiate content, increasing overall prosperity of the network. Although it could get them more money, they play for long term and keep the standard high. They need to make money like every other company.

Not really but a friend of mine was scammed out of $40k legit AdSense earnings.

As for the quality of AdWords - I have not forgotten about the 500 million dollar fine Google received for pharmacy ads.

Re: Why Google makes the perfect ISP

#50
post #35

Google's core business is advertising. Google likes to do stuff with the data that passes through its systems. Google has explicitly and pro-actively taken sides in fight against copyright violations instead of remaining a neutral party. And they've been less than steadfast on Net Neutrality, which is a big red flag for a company that wants to be an ISP. This is not about Google being "evil", but I do not want a comp…

Would it be any worse? Because "Same deal, but faster and cheaper" sounds okay to me.
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