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Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

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Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#21

Post by sitkack »

What is the total cost for a pcb populated with components? Probably around 60-70 qty 100?

I appreciate the blog post and the writeup, it might be nice to include it in the repo.

I have been toying with a similar design, with many of the same choices. Although for the system controller pair, I'd go with RP2350B and ESP32-C61 (I think). It would be nice if there was an optional chip and pad layout to support legacy or classic BT.

Another option would be to have a USB port and support something like https://www.8bitdo.com/usb-wireless-adapter-2/ to enable legacy controllers.

It looks like supporting legacy BT while noble, could be a project killing sidequest (if you didn't already have it done!) Another out, would be exposing an SPI connection internally so someone could hack in a controller of their choice.

Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#22

Post by bsimpson »

skyyler wrote: post #20
bsimpson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never paid that much attention to retro hardware - I still have a lot of the originals in my parents' garage. I just moved, which gave me an opportunity to give all the old Rock Band instruments that were too loud for my last apartment a fresh try. It's disappointing how bad RCA-era systems like the Wii looks on a 4K OLED. The upscaling is blurry as shit. I've been trying to get all my songs imported into YARG (…

You can get better video output from the Wii than RCA. It won't be 4K but it will be much sharper: https://electron-shepherd.com/products/electronwarp There was also an official component cable which would look much nicer than the composite that the Wii comes with. But your 4K tv almost definitely don't have component input.

Thanks for the tip!

Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#23

Post by ConanRus »

elipsitz wrote: post #11
ConanRus wrote: post #8

Why only GB/GBA? Mister FPGA support lot's of cores which can use the same Screen and controls: NES, SNES, various Sega consoles, C64, MSX etc. And any cheap Chinese retro-console of the same sort support even more of them. So from a practical standpoint I don't see any advantage of this (no doubt cool) project.

This main distinguishing feature of this project is that it supports physical cartridges, whereas MiSTer and almost every other emulation handheld doesn’t. The FPGA cores here are written from scratch by me with hardware support in mind, and it’s quite a bit of work! Plus, SNES cartridges don’t exactly fit in a handheld :)

this is very impressive. all i say is you might port some of the Mister cores as well, if only for Roms support.

Portable FPGA retro console would be great.

Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#24

Post by anfractuosity »

ecshafer wrote: post #10

I don't really know if this is a stupid idea or not, I don't really have hardware experience. But the older systems, say NES, SNES, Genesis etc are pretty simple systems. Patents also have a lifetime. Why aren't we getting recreations of the hardware via a SOC sold that near-perfectly emulates the system? The FPGA projects are as close as I see this happening, but FPGAs are pretty expensive I imagine compared to some…

There's a Gameboy clone made by kongfeng that seems kind of like this, with its own chip. I'd love to know more about how they created it.

Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#25

Post by philipkglass »

nemomarx wrote: post #12
ecshafer wrote: post #10

I don't really know if this is a stupid idea or not, I don't really have hardware experience. But the older systems, say NES, SNES, Genesis etc are pretty simple systems. Patents also have a lifetime. Why aren't we getting recreations of the hardware via a SOC sold that near-perfectly emulates the system? The FPGA projects are as close as I see this happening, but FPGAs are pretty expensive I imagine compared to some…

I believe NES patents might be finally all expired and off this year, but the SNES is probably covered for a little longer. Reverse engineering emulators and fpgas has been safer legally speaking for most of the last few decades.

Patents last 20 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_of_patent

The SNES came out in 1990:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_S...

Every patent on the original SNES should have expired by 2010.

Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#26

Post by opencl »

ecshafer wrote: post #10

I don't really know if this is a stupid idea or not, I don't really have hardware experience. But the older systems, say NES, SNES, Genesis etc are pretty simple systems. Patents also have a lifetime. Why aren't we getting recreations of the hardware via a SOC sold that near-perfectly emulates the system? The FPGA projects are as close as I see this happening, but FPGAs are pretty expensive I imagine compared to some…

It's been done before. Lots of 90s bootleg consoles used clones of the Famicom/NES chips, though they weren't particularly accurate clones. The Commodore 64 Direct-To-TV of all things had a custom ASIC made for it in 2004.

I think these days FPGAs have just gotten cheap enough that the economics of making custom chips doesn't make much sense for the volumes these kinds of products tend to sell.

Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#28

Post by goosedragons »

ecshafer wrote: post #10

I don't really know if this is a stupid idea or not, I don't really have hardware experience. But the older systems, say NES, SNES, Genesis etc are pretty simple systems. Patents also have a lifetime. Why aren't we getting recreations of the hardware via a SOC sold that near-perfectly emulates the system? The FPGA projects are as close as I see this happening, but FPGAs are pretty expensive I imagine compared to some…

We do, sort of. There are ASIC based clones of the NES, SNES, Genesis, GBA and GBC. Hyperkin for example sells a few, the SupaRetron HD is an ASIC based SNES clone, the MegaRetron HD is an ASIC based Genesis clone. Some Chinese companies have Game Boy Clones (e.g., GB Boy Colour). They aren't perfect because they aren't perfect 1:1 reverse engineered chips and nobody seems willing to spend the money to fix all the bugs, but they can be pretty close. The main benefit of the FPGA systems is that bugs can be fixed and they can do more than the real systems if need be like scan line emulation.

Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#29

Post by elipsitz »

sitkack wrote: post #21

What is the total cost for a pcb populated with components? Probably around 60-70 qty 100? I appreciate the blog post and the writeup, it might be nice to include it in the repo. I have been toying with a similar design, with many of the same choices. Although for the system controller pair, I'd go with RP2350B and ESP32-C61 (I think). It would be nice if there was an optional chip and pad layout to support legacy or…

Populated PCB in quantity 100 would probably be 60-70 USD, yeah. Maybe a bit less, it really depends on how much you can buy the FPGAs for.

I really did want to switch to the RP2350B, but it's (still) not available to buy. There's also the (unreleased) Raspberry Pi RM2 module which would help with Bluetooth Classic and LE support.

On Game Bub, I do expose a Pmod interface (4 data wires) connected to the FPGA, so that actually is an option here too.

Re: Show HN: Game Bub – open-source FPGA retro emulation handheld

#30

Post by [deleted] »

elipsitz wrote: post #29
sitkack wrote: post #21

What is the total cost for a pcb populated with components? Probably around 60-70 qty 100? I appreciate the blog post and the writeup, it might be nice to include it in the repo. I have been toying with a similar design, with many of the same choices. Although for the system controller pair, I'd go with RP2350B and ESP32-C61 (I think). It would be nice if there was an optional chip and pad layout to support legacy or…

Populated PCB in quantity 100 would probably be 60-70 USD, yeah. Maybe a bit less, it really depends on how much you can buy the FPGAs for. I really did want to switch to the RP2350B, but it's (still) not available to buy. There's also the (unreleased) Raspberry Pi RM2 module which would help with Bluetooth Classic and LE support. On Game Bub, I do expose a Pmod interface (4 data wires) connected to the FPGA, so that…

[deleted]
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