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How well does Khan Academy teach?

washingtonpost.com

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Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#61

Colin once again submits an article from the United States popular press, here a co-authored op-ed piece, about mathematics education reform in the United States, one of my main topics of personal research for more than a decade. The regular opinion column to which this guest piece was submitted, the "Answer Sheet" edited by Valerie Strauss, is basically propaganda for the current school system, and has been caught h…

I'd be interested to know (and, apologies if you've opined on it before) what you think of Lockhart's Lament.

http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

His seems to advocate that children should be taught to explore math problems and make discoveries rather than memorize and practice given truths. My layperson's read of your comment finds some commonality between your positions.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#62
post #17

I'm really starting to believe that these "critiques" of Khan Academy are just teachers and professors terrified of becoming irrelevant. The question shouldn't be "How well does Khan Academy teach" (well, maybe someday). The important question right now is "Is Khan Academy a better learning tool than most high school and college teachers?". In my experience, the answer overwhelmingly is "yes". I did have some truly f…

A good teacher will never become irrelevant. A bad teacher will become more effective because they they don't waste time with bad lectures. I also think it would be easier to help individuals with problems rather than dealing with the varying abilities of a group of students at the same time.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#63
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some of the things these people believe they've learned from the KA, and believe must be right because they (think) they've seen it on KA really worry me What kind of things? Are you suggesting that flesh-and-blood teachers or brick-and-mortar schools are less likely to spread misinformation or leave students with misconceptions? I can tell you a hundred false things I was taught by "real" school, and some of them…

Are you suggesting that flesh-and-blood teachers or brick-and-mortar schools are less likely to spread misinformation or leave students with misconceptions? Possibly, because when you leave school you can realize your misconceptions and learn from other people, as well as pointing out other people's misconceptions. But if everyone uses Khan Academy, everyone will end up with the same misconceptions.

Why wouldn't you be able to do that after taking some classes online?

I guess some people are suggesting that Khan Academy is the ultimate in education and that everybody should use only that and nothing else?

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#64

Colin once again submits an article from the United States popular press, here a co-authored op-ed piece, about mathematics education reform in the United States, one of my main topics of personal research for more than a decade. The regular opinion column to which this guest piece was submitted, the "Answer Sheet" edited by Valerie Strauss, is basically propaganda for the current school system, and has been caught h…

and the Khan Academy developers have been listening, and I have had interesting off-forum email interaction

And THERE is the difference between genuinely-given constructive criticism and the questionably-motivated smearing that those folks working with the Washington Post are attempting to deliver.

Thank you very much for the links. I've already sent some of them on to my wife so that she and I can research them a bit more as instructional aids for our children.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#65
post #61

Colin once again submits an article from the United States popular press, here a co-authored op-ed piece, about mathematics education reform in the United States, one of my main topics of personal research for more than a decade. The regular opinion column to which this guest piece was submitted, the "Answer Sheet" edited by Valerie Strauss, is basically propaganda for the current school system, and has been caught h…

I'd be interested to know (and, apologies if you've opined on it before) what you think of Lockhart's Lament. http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf His seems to advocate that children should be taught to explore math problems and make discoveries rather than memorize and practice given truths. My layperson's read of your comment finds some commonality between your positions.

I used to teach math and reading Lockharts Lament was deeply satisfying. He is much closer to the light than our current system, but in retrospect I think he's got his head in the clouds a little.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#66
post #55

I spend a lot of my time in outreach, enhancement, and enrichment activities, and I've now met several people who have taken to watching lots of the Khan videos. Some of them are doing spectacularly well, possibly partly because of them, although correlation versus causation, etc. However, I have had some seriously worrying conversations with people who have some deep, deep misconceptions, and who believe they have b…

Derek Muller of the YouTube science channel Veritasium did a TED audition wherein he discussed this: http://talentsearch.ted.com/video/Derek-Muller-The-key-to-ef... He found that just showing a video of the laws of motion made people more confident of their answers on a physics quiz, but just as wrong. They would actually have false memories of the video confirming their prior knowledge. What worked was first debunki…

Fascinating. There is also research showing (in gossip/news and politics) that by refuting a false statement, the act of repeating the statement actually reinforces it. People ignore the "... IS FALSE" part. I think that plays in here --- my simply consuming a statement, they slightly edit it to fit in with their prior information, or just to make it easier to remember, by dropping the complications.

You need to to drag someone through the mental struggle of unseating their beliefs.

My favorite technique is to find the source of the misconception, and highlight it. Instead of attempting to dispose of an entire complex thought, pick it a part, find the mistake ("you are confusing 'velocity' and 'force' -- they are different things."), and rebuild the correct explanation using the patched piece.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#67

I spend a lot of my time in outreach, enhancement, and enrichment activities, and I've now met several people who have taken to watching lots of the Khan videos. Some of them are doing spectacularly well, possibly partly because of them, although correlation versus causation, etc. However, I have had some seriously worrying conversations with people who have some deep, deep misconceptions, and who believe they have b…

> some of the things these people believe they've learned from the KA, and believe must be right because they (think) they've seen it on KA really worry me What kind of things? Are you suggesting that flesh-and-blood teachers or brick-and-mortar schools are less likely to spread misinformation or leave students with misconceptions? I can tell you a hundred false things I was taught by "real" school, and some of them…

Why must we always jump from A to B? I see this happen in all contentious subjects, but nowhere more than in education discussions.

The top-poster's point was about a very specific type of problem he's seen with some people watching some of Khan's videos. He does not even hint about the prevalence of the same problem in traditional schools.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#68
post #10

One of the issues I have with Khan Academy is that they are using exactly the same style of teaching as in schools...just ported online. Is that really the best way to go about online education? I find the AcademicEarth.org method of simply filming classes even worse. Yes, they do allow for what you'd normally call "quality education" to be accessible by anyone online, so that's a pretty big step, but I get this feel…

I wouldn't call it exactly the same... The biggest difference that frequently gets glossed over is the Coaching interface. In normal schools it's hard to get one-on-one tutoring with someone who can actually help, as well as with someone who knows exactly what you're struggling with. I'm sure most people who've done tutor work have encountered students who can't even describe what it is they're having problems with, they're that far gone.

What improvements do you hope to see? Making it easier to find short-term tutors would be on my list, throw up some IRC channels that tutors can monitor and get notified of students seeking help. I think one-on-one teaching is the most optimal.

As for how easy it is to learn, as long as we aren't hardwiring people's brains with information as seen in The Matrix learning is going to still take work. (Not necessarily hard work in every instance, but work.) I'd like to see more ways to interact and make the knowledge part of one's own experiences rather than as received truth (something Polanyi got mostly right in his Personal Knowledge book). Of course I'm instantly suspicious of any technique or product that tries to oversell its ability to teach concepts faster with better retention, and even more suspicious when it tries to sell itself as "it's so fun the user won't even realize they are learning!" That said, I can see benefits of various systems over both doing nothing and the status quo. Tools like Anki for instance work well, if used. The advice some programming texts give to manually type the programs also has obvious benefits, basically a subset of techniques that train the mind to follow and notice common actions. (There was an app linked on HN a few weeks ago that replicates the motions of solving algebra problems without actually doing any algebra, I can see how "eliminating two like things from both sides" feeling "okay" may help some people a little.) Khan has mentioned that he has offline students watch lecture videos as homework and do problems or answer questions during classroom time, the opposite of the traditional school, I can see its benefits over the traditional method too for classes where information is typically transferred via lecture.

What things like KA, AcademicEarth, and Wikipedia all have in common though is that they change the utility function of learning. That is, when they're not being used as crutches to get through the traditional schools. Students can learn what they want, when they want, stress-free. The classical model is "pass the tests with scores above this threshold or die." (Not literally of course.) It encourages cramming and forgetting. Cumulative testing doesn't help because the course only lasts maximally 9 months (with a big break in the middle), and at higher levels only 3-4 months. Sometimes it's even just one term rather than a full semester. It's not enough. Add in repetition of the wrong things (it's always the most basic things that get repeated endlessly when they're the easiest things to remember!), poor communication between professors of what they actually cover, poor communication between student and professor of what the student actually understands, fixed deadlines, anxiety over money (whether living expenses or paying $1500 for a dumb class), anxiety over spending X hours of your life for a useless class/assignment, retaking the entirety of a class instead of focusing on what you're missing specifically, being forced to take classes one has no interest or skill in, being exposed to one resource, et cetera, it's amazing the classical system works at all.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#70
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some of the things these people believe they've learned from the KA, and believe must be right because they (think) they've seen it on KA really worry me What kind of things? Are you suggesting that flesh-and-blood teachers or brick-and-mortar schools are less likely to spread misinformation or leave students with misconceptions? I can tell you a hundred false things I was taught by "real" school, and some of them…

Truly the greatest enemy the online education revolution faces is not the current education system, but the way that people secretly substitute the real system for this mysterious magical perfect system based on the assumption that the stated goals of the current system are actually its result, and compare online against the myth instead of the reality. Goals aren't results . Compare real to real. The real competitio…

This is a spectacularly true comment, and is generalizable across disciplines. I've rewritten it slightly to generalize it....

Truly the greatest enemy the $REFORM_MOVEMENT faces is not the $EXISTING system, but the way that people secretly substitute the real system for this mysterious magical perfect system based on the assumption that the stated goals of the current system are actually its result, and compare online against the myth instead of the reality.

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