How well does Khan Academy teach? • Hacker News Board

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#21

Post by Jtsummers » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:23 PM UTC

delinka wrote: post #13

tl;dr, with my own interpretation of the article: "although we are not students in today's world, we presume to know and understand the mind of today's student and can tell you from our own learned perspective that Khan just doesn't have what it takes to teach." I'm certain I read nothing more than snobbery in this article. It reads like "we didn't think of this free online disruptive academy first" or "how dare you…

I think you took something different from the article than I did. They provide a critique, strongly worded at times, but not totally bashing Khan Academy or the general approach. They specify their concerns, and even offer suggestions on ways it can be improved (specifically, examining existing pedagogy and coordinating with some of the top math and science teachers to generate better content).

One of the authors is a current teacher, working with real students. He gets feedback from them either directly (by questions, comments, curses) or indirectly (homework, tests, quizzes) to gauge his effectiveness as an educator. Khan (until they added problems to the site) didn't have this feedback.

Their criticism boils down to a few main points.

1. He uses an inconsistent presentation of algebra and arithmetic work and notation, which could lead to students becoming confused when he suddenly changes it.

2. He uses a poor selection of examples, without offering more or better examples students may develop a mathematical toolset based on a flawed understanding, which will lead to problems further down the line.

3. The problems available to students are insufficient to provide proper mathematical practice and ensure that some of the common misunderstandings are shown to be wrong.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#22

Post by b0 » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:26 PM UTC

The answer to this, at least in my case, is better than my children's primary school teachers by an order of magnitude.

I get the feeling that most of the people bitching are paid teachers who are losing their cut.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#23

Post by mgurlitz » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:26 PM UTC

latch wrote: post #9

This article is a critique of the traditional aspect of teaching (having a teacher lecture students). This is obviously important, so it's good to have professional educators provide feedback. However, I thought the aspects that was supposed to be "revolutionary" was detailed tracking and analysis of students and that feedback loop (either back into the system, to the student themselves or to teachers). They seem to…

I think one of the most groundbreaking ideas they have is "flipping the classroom" [1], where students watch Sal's videos at home before class for homework, then in class they work on problems with the teacher and other students. That's where the ability for teachers to track and target deficiencies really becomes powerful.

[1]: http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/story/2012-05-30/sal-kha...

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#24

Post by hencq » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:26 PM UTC

latch wrote: post #9

This article is a critique of the traditional aspect of teaching (having a teacher lecture students). This is obviously important, so it's good to have professional educators provide feedback. However, I thought the aspects that was supposed to be "revolutionary" was detailed tracking and analysis of students and that feedback loop (either back into the system, to the student themselves or to teachers). They seem to…

I found the examples the article gave about students' common misconceptions interesting. I'm wondering whether the tracking and analysis by Khan Academy picks up these misconceptions as well. For example, in one of the examples (8 + 4 = _ + 5) many students answer 12 or 17. Khan Academy should be ideally placed to find such misconceptions if only because their sample size is much bigger than the average classroom.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#25

Post by UK-AL » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:28 PM UTC

ColinWright wrote: post #12

I spend a lot of my time in outreach, enhancement, and enrichment activities, and I've now met several people who have taken to watching lots of the Khan videos. Some of them are doing spectacularly well, possibly partly because of them, although correlation versus causation, etc. However, I have had some seriously worrying conversations with people who have some deep, deep misconceptions, and who believe they have b…

You say that, but I think a lot of people are making up criticisms in order to justify ignoring it.

Where i was taught we still had the exact same decimal problem khan has...

The best way to deal with it is through continuous refinement until criticisms are few

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#26

Post by ColinWright » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:31 PM UTC

UK-AL wrote: post #25

ColinWright wrote: post #12

I spend a lot of my time in outreach, enhancement, and enrichment activities, and I've now met several people who have taken to watching lots of the Khan videos. Some of them are doing spectacularly well, possibly partly because of them, although correlation versus causation, etc. However, I have had some seriously worrying conversations with people who have some deep, deep misconceptions, and who believe they have b…

You say that, but I think a lot of people are making up criticisms in order to justify ignoring it. Where i was taught we still had the exact same decimal problem khan has... The best way to deal with it is through continuous refinement until criticisms are few

  > The best way to deal with it though is
  > continuous refinement until criticisms
  > are few

And for that you need the criticisms.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#27

Post by jcromartie » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:33 PM UTC

ColinWright wrote: post #12

I spend a lot of my time in outreach, enhancement, and enrichment activities, and I've now met several people who have taken to watching lots of the Khan videos. Some of them are doing spectacularly well, possibly partly because of them, although correlation versus causation, etc. However, I have had some seriously worrying conversations with people who have some deep, deep misconceptions, and who believe they have b…

> some of the things these people believe they've learned from the KA, and believe must be right because they (think) they've seen it on KA really worry me

What kind of things?

Are you suggesting that flesh-and-blood teachers or brick-and-mortar schools are less likely to spread misinformation or leave students with misconceptions? I can tell you a hundred false things I was taught by "real" school, and some of them are probably just things I think I was taught.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#28

Post by zugumzug » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:34 PM UTC

ColinWright wrote: post #12

I spend a lot of my time in outreach, enhancement, and enrichment activities, and I've now met several people who have taken to watching lots of the Khan videos. Some of them are doing spectacularly well, possibly partly because of them, although correlation versus causation, etc. However, I have had some seriously worrying conversations with people who have some deep, deep misconceptions, and who believe they have b…

I think that the crux of the argument seems to be this idea that there is a "magic bullet" to fix the education system. As a former teacher I can tell you that if there is a magic bullet it's parent involvement in students lives. No textbook, online video, or even a fantastic teacher is an acceptable substitute for parent involvement as a foundation for a child's educational success.

With that said, I think that KA is an excellent addition to the pieces of the educational puzzle. I've used many of his videos to supplement teaching and textbooks, both good and bad.

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#29

Post by MTChirps » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:36 PM UTC

It's kind of an interesting question. Is it better to educate masses with an inferior product that breeds misconception, or fewer people with a better product that limits misconception?

Re: How well does Khan Academy teach?

#30

Post by numeromancer » Fri, Jul 27, 2012, 1:41 PM UTC

jcromartie wrote: post #27

ColinWright wrote: post #12

I spend a lot of my time in outreach, enhancement, and enrichment activities, and I've now met several people who have taken to watching lots of the Khan videos. Some of them are doing spectacularly well, possibly partly because of them, although correlation versus causation, etc. However, I have had some seriously worrying conversations with people who have some deep, deep misconceptions, and who believe they have b…

> some of the things these people believe they've learned from the KA, and believe must be right because they (think) they've seen it on KA really worry me What kind of things? Are you suggesting that flesh-and-blood teachers or brick-and-mortar schools are less likely to spread misinformation or leave students with misconceptions? I can tell you a hundred false things I was taught by "real" school, and some of them…

This. And I spent some time in some of those education courses they (sort of) recommend to Khan in the article, and they were either a complete waste of my time or worse. They have more bad politics than good pedagogy.