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Thank You Bootstrap 1

kylerego.github.io

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Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#21

Post by gigatree »

caspper69 wrote: post #18
krab wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You split your app into components and separate it from the backend using an API. This allows you to build a bigger development team. The result will be less efficient but more featureful, more polished, will have someone on call and a better bus factor. It's a trade-off.

I don't mean to be obtuse, so let me make sure I have this right (and please afford me some leeway on my gentle ribbing, I assure you it's all in good fun and nothing personal): A framework will allow me to separate the app from its backend? The web, by its very nature, runs on a client/server architecture, so it has long been possible to separate the front from the backend via an API (we can argue the level of diffi…

Hilarious analogy that honestly doesn’t seem that far off. But in that reality, you probably wouldn’t be able to walk to the store, much less anywhere else, because there would be all these semi trucks driving everywhere and a road-dominated country. That’s basically a dev trying to get a job today, which means they’re just gonna focus on learning that whether it’s the best solution or not.

Most devs don’t use React because it’s the best tool for the job, they use it because it’s the best tool for getting a paycheck.

Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#22

Post by caspper69 »

chillfox wrote: post #20
caspper69 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to be obtuse, so let me make sure I have this right (and please afford me some leeway on my gentle ribbing, I assure you it's all in good fun and nothing personal): A framework will allow me to separate the app from its backend? The web, by its very nature, runs on a client/server architecture, so it has long been possible to separate the front from the backend via an API (we can argue the level of diffi…

"bus factor" is just a side benefit of having a larger dev team. The idea is if someone gets run over by a bus then you still have someone who "knows" the code to train the replacement.

I like it.

I will add it to my lexicon.

Thanks!

Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#23

Post by nullpoint420 »

danpalmer wrote: post #13
leoqa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies will have a team building a component library which is equivalent.

Functionally no companies have a team building component libraries. Tech companies with >100 employees might be more likely to, but that leaves most companies without that team, where they may still benefit from using Bootstrap as the basis for it.

Even those that do use ReactStrap and pretend they made their own design system /shrug

Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#24

Post by caspper69 »

gigatree wrote: post #21
caspper69 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to be obtuse, so let me make sure I have this right (and please afford me some leeway on my gentle ribbing, I assure you it's all in good fun and nothing personal): A framework will allow me to separate the app from its backend? The web, by its very nature, runs on a client/server architecture, so it has long been possible to separate the front from the backend via an API (we can argue the level of diffi…

Hilarious analogy that honestly doesn’t seem that far off. But in that reality, you probably wouldn’t be able to walk to the store, much less anywhere else, because there would be all these semi trucks driving everywhere and a road-dominated country. That’s basically a dev trying to get a job today, which means they’re just gonna focus on learning that whether it’s the best solution or not. Most devs don’t use React…

Well we can all relate to that. We've all got to eat (and stay warm & dry).

I think I'm just getting to the "old man yells at cloud" stage of my career.

I think of all of the things that we could have built over the years, and understand, I say this not to detract from all of the great software that has been built, but to lament the fact that devs spend so much time spinning their wheels these days (when not reinventing them, or trying to fit a square one on a race car) that we have spent so much opportunity cost that could have been the next big thing or the better version of an old thing.

I would just implore people to go back and look at the history of computing, and the things we had back then (even if they were research demos or ahead-of-their-time pipe dreams), and remember that we have 100,000-1,000,000x the compute (or more) than we had when these older things were built. We can do better.

And remember, not every abstraction is a useful one, not every appeal from authority should be taken as gospel, that creating software can be one of the most creative and expressive endeavors one can undertake, that there is no greater joy than seeing people use the things you build (or help build), and that there's no such thing as perfect software (but we should always strive to get as close as reasonably possible).

Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#25

Post by rzzzt »

gedy wrote: post #11
danpalmer wrote: post #7

Something that I've often wished, as a primarily backend focused engineer, often without frontend support, is for designers or perhaps design engineers, to pretty much build Bootstrap themes. That would let me code to the Bootstrap docs (which are pretty good), while allowing us to brand or customise whatever we're working on. I've seen even contract designers push back on this idea, suggesting that doing such a thin…

> What am I missing? You're not missing anything, companies like mine have done just this. We supported a messy situation of 7 webapps using different technologies looking 7 different ways. Once we got them to use Bootstrap, was a cinch to consolidate to a single company brand. The "big reskin" UX was gearing up for was as simple as a new theme, and was done without any drama. They were almost disappointed it was so…

The secret: use SCSS or LESS to pack the combined effect of "p-3 border-1 shadow-sm rounded-2" into a single class.

Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#27

Post by spyke112 »

rzzzt wrote: post #25
gedy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What am I missing? You're not missing anything, companies like mine have done just this. We supported a messy situation of 7 webapps using different technologies looking 7 different ways. Once we got them to use Bootstrap, was a cinch to consolidate to a single company brand. The "big reskin" UX was gearing up for was as simple as a new theme, and was done without any drama. They were almost disappointed it was so…

The secret: use SCSS or LESS to pack the combined effect of "p-3 border-1 shadow-sm rounded-2" into a single class.

Sooooo mixins? You can do that with Bootstrap as well.

Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#28

Post by sleiben »

danpalmer wrote: post #14
BillSaysThis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, having decades of frontend development experience, asked this of my VP once. He said no designers would work for us if we did this.

Can you give any more insight as to why? Designers always seem to want to build design libraries, I don't understand why they wouldn't want to use a common API as the basis for that so that there's a contract of sorts with developers.

I would assume their thought is, that it limits their creative spirit and in general is too technical. But they start (as 2 people teams) on figma a complete own design lib with a lot of variables and custom components which look the same like any other lib.

Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#29

Post by Zanfa »

caspper69 wrote: post #15
danpalmer wrote: post #7

Something that I've often wished, as a primarily backend focused engineer, often without frontend support, is for designers or perhaps design engineers, to pretty much build Bootstrap themes. That would let me code to the Bootstrap docs (which are pretty good), while allowing us to brand or customise whatever we're working on. I've seen even contract designers push back on this idea, suggesting that doing such a thin…

Having spent a decade in the late 90s / early aughts doing PHP web development (including Bootstrap), I can't for the life of me figure out why modern frameworks need hooks and a shadow DOM and a component model. I dabbled for a bit about a decade ago, and the first and last JS framework I worked with was Angular2 (which was in beta); this was right about the time Typescript was getting started (in fact, I distinctly…

In my experience, a lot of developers have a very limited grasp of what the browser can do for you without React. If all you know is React, everything looks like a single-page application.

Re: Thank You Bootstrap 1

#30

Post by emayljames »

danpalmer wrote: post #14
BillSaysThis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, having decades of frontend development experience, asked this of my VP once. He said no designers would work for us if we did this.

Can you give any more insight as to why? Designers always seem to want to build design libraries, I don't understand why they wouldn't want to use a common API as the basis for that so that there's a contract of sorts with developers.

Things like Tailwind take the core concepts of bootstrap and build and improve on it on a grand scale. It is like comparing jQuery (bootstrap), to React (tailwind).
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