I miss assembler and maximizing code efficiency to juggle 2k of ram.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but I do unironically miss this.
Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
31–40 of 219 posts
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#32No it’s not. Software is killing the US and not because it abstracts low level stuff. It’s because it abstracts reality in such a way that the US is becoming a nation of software engineers ignorant of even how to build the stuff it programs. We’ve moved up the stack and moving up the stack requires people knowledgeable about the bottom.
One can’t exist without the other so the world isn’t getting destroyed. China is handling the bottom of the stack. And by understanding the bottom of the stack they also become good with the top.
I used to hear shit like China only knows how to manufacture stuff the US is good at design. And I keep thinking well if you submit an entire design to China to manufacture you don’t think they will figure out how to design? Knowing how to design is easy. Manufacturing or turning that design into reality is hard.
Software isn’t killing civilization. It’s killing the US and that may seem like the world if you lived here all your life.
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#33Why stop here… not say easy access to clean water is destroying your health. Should walk two miles to the watering hole, carry it back, collect wood for fire and boil the water your self… \s
Ngl, forcing people to walk two miles for water everyday would probably make a significant dent in obesity related mortality.
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#34It appears that author is from that newer generation, and completely misses points because he just don’t know. Ironically the article is an example of what Blow was talking about. similar happens if I talk about how Figma is destroying the design world on unprecedented scale by normalising bad UX, UI and product management found in Figma itself, and get responses from younger designers that everything is great, compl…
So your rebuttal is that they’re wrong because they’re young and inexperienced? OK, maybe, but what exactly are they wrong about? You haven’t actually added anything to the conversation with this ad hominem attack.
Also I couldn't find the authors age but judging by the fact they say they still use an Amiga they're probably at least in their 40s(unless they're a huge retro fan)
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#35I think JavaScript on the server and React and these things has really made the web a mess of software development compared to how little stuff it actually does. I know for a fact a bunch of kids now do not even know that HTML is what gets rendered in the browser. They think that React is itself what browsers render. Not to mention the absolute idiot of a CEO of Vercel who thinks React is the Linux kernel of developm…
> They think that React is itself what browsers render My kingdom for native JSX in the browser. That would be awesome . Something similar to how we have WebGL and Canvas, but for pure JavaScript UI without the extra step of DOM reconciliation. There’s a small (and growing) cohort of people working on rendering React Native directly on canvas or webgl (I think). Supposedly gives you super smooth UX, but I haven’t kno…
> rendering React Native directly on canvas or webgl
I just threw up in my mouth a little. I can’t wait to:
- not be able to double click to highlight text a word at a time, because the developers of the “super smooth UX” didn’t know that’s what typical text does.
- or triple click to highlight a paragraph at a time
- or have the standard menu available when I highlight text (which I often use to look up words, etc)
- or have text editing support any of my OS’s key bindings, like ctrl-left to move the caret one word, ctrl-shift left to highlight in the process, etc etc
- or any one of the hundreds upon hundreds of common control behaviors, accessibility behaviors, system-wide settings on text behaviors, etc etc etc be respected
Of course if they’re anything like the Flutter folks, they’ll look at every one of these things and say “well, I guess we gotta implement all that” rather than understanding the basic fact that common UI elements offered by the OS should actually be reused, not reimplemented poorly.
I really worry about what software will look like 20 years from now. At this rate we’re just going to forget every thing we learned about how it should behave.
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#36I think JavaScript on the server and React and these things has really made the web a mess of software development compared to how little stuff it actually does. I know for a fact a bunch of kids now do not even know that HTML is what gets rendered in the browser. They think that React is itself what browsers render. Not to mention the absolute idiot of a CEO of Vercel who thinks React is the Linux kernel of developm…
> They think that React is itself what browsers render My kingdom for native JSX in the browser. That would be awesome . Something similar to how we have WebGL and Canvas, but for pure JavaScript UI without the extra step of DOM reconciliation. There’s a small (and growing) cohort of people working on rendering React Native directly on canvas or webgl (I think). Supposedly gives you super smooth UX, but I haven’t kno…
> There’s a small (and growing) cohort of people working on rendering React Native directly on canvas or webgl (I think)
Sounds terrible for accessibility.
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#37As somebody who works in embedded, and does kernel programming and low level networking, I wish any of Blow's fear mongering was true. It would do wonders to my feeling of job security and self importance.
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#38Blow often makes fantastic points about development, and often completely misses the mark. He’s accomplished great things and has ideas worth listening to - but also plenty of nonsense that’s presented indistinguishably. I felt quite strongly that the collapse of civilisation talk was one of those pieces of nonsense, and I’ve largely ignored it (despite listening to it twice). I’m grateful to OP for providing a more…
Does he though? It seems like he just makes these broad critical statements then pisses off to continue to do nothing. I wouldn’t even say he’s accomplished great things. He’s accomplished some decent things. He’s released two games which barely qualify as games. They’re more like puzzles. You don’t need to play them ever again after you finish the first time. Braid is ok. And the Witness is just Flow. And then after…
I do agree, although I do like him. I find it fun to listen to Blow’s rants and part of me feels like he is right to a degree. It would be nice if programmers knew more about the platforms they are developing on.
But it’s pretty clear that Blow’s process does not make him particularly productive. The dude obviously works insanely hard and is talented. I can’t imagine how much he would be able to produce if he leaned on some abstractions.
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#39If an older web developer rants about abstraction, they will target React developers.
If a Python dev rants about abstraction, they will target older web developers.
If a C++ application dev rants about abstractions, they will target Python developers.
If a firmware dev rants about abstractions, they will target application developers.
If an electrical engineer rants about abstractions, they will target firmware developers.
Drawing the line for “excessive abstraction” based on what you personally know and calling everything afterwards as “killing civilization” is quite a take.
Re: Is software abstraction killing civilization? (2021)
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does he though? It seems like he just makes these broad critical statements then pisses off to continue to do nothing. I wouldn’t even say he’s accomplished great things. He’s accomplished some decent things. He’s released two games which barely qualify as games. They’re more like puzzles. You don’t need to play them ever again after you finish the first time. Braid is ok. And the Witness is just Flow. And then after…
I think you're getting close to ad hominem. It should be sufficient to point out how little overall people like Blow have accomplished. Blow is a hard worker, and yet it took him and his team 8 years to develop The Witness, which as you pointed out isn't anything revolutionary. I think there's a weird form of elitism at play here. Working close to the hardware isn't hard. There was a point in my early 20s where I too…
Have you shipped a commercial-quality 3D game engine and game? How long did it take you?