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Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

kevin.burke.dev

51–60 of 411 posts

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long term I don't see how it's possible to continue to let people live in areas so fire prone that insurance cannot be done, it seems to me. Unless you want to live in a concrete castle or something

Construction itself isn't that expensive. It's certainly possible to self insure and accept that living in an area prone to fires means your house might burn down. It goes against the prevailing culture of the ever-growing housing bubble, but financialization has to hit its limits some time.

Self-insuring is probably not going to fly with your mortgage lender. If nobody can get a mortgage, and everyone has to self-insure, it's going to 1) drive down housing prices (fewer cash buyers) and 2) guarantee that only people of pretty substantial means can afford to live there (even with lower prices, most people can't come up with a cash payment for a house).

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#52

The author estimates that electricity prices would be reduced by up to 33% (from $0.45 blended rate to $0.30), but PG&E’s profit margins are only 11%. That’s a good hint that this hypothetical is missing some important details The article hedges against someone pointing this out by admitting that Walnut Creek is an unusually optimistic location and that PG&E is also recognizing large expenses related to ongoing infra…

I don’t think profit margin is the correct way to calculate their expenses. For one, it includes expenses outside of the municipality. For another, corporations are often okay overspending on executive compensation and other lavish business expenses for tax purposes.

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#53
+1 to this analysis. Urban ratepayers in CA subsidize rural and fire-prone ratepayers. (Utility rates are a stealth tax. Same story as home insurance.) The fight is ultimately political and not as one-sided as you might think. The broad regulator and politician view is that the subsidies are valid, and if the cities all leave the grid, the subsidies will wind up on the state's balance sheet. Nobody wants to see rural de-electrification. Utilities have a lot of sway with politicians for corrupt and non-corrupt reasons.

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#54
It never ceases to amaze me how often people will make socialist economic arguments (that are objectively correct) yet eschew the label "socialism".

An enterprise, like providing a utility, has revenues and it has costs. The difference between the two can be called the "surplus labor value". What happens to that depends on the economic system.

In capitalism, capital owners own that enterprise (utility) and they siphon off profits raising the costs. Put another way, capital owners own the means of production, not the residents of the city or the city itself. This is rent-seeking behavior.

In a socialist organization of the economy, the residents either directly or through the city itself, would own the utility. Any profits would go back into the utility or be extra revenue for the city but there's really no incentive to increase prices on the citizens who own the utility (unlike the unquenchable thirst for increasing profits for capital owners).

I have to constantly point out that capitalism isn't markets (market existed thousands of years before it and exist in every economic system). Capitalism simply supplanted feudalism by replacing kings with billionaires. That's it.

We have abundant examples of how the latter is a substantially better system. Just compare EPB Internet (Chattanooga, TN and surrounds) vs Verizon, AT&T, Comcast or Spectrum. Municipal broadband, without exception, is substantially better than any national ISP. The only thing that keeps national ISPs in business is more rent-seeking behavior such as lobbying for legislation to ban municipal broadband.

Given this is the Superbowl weekend, it's worth adding that the Packers are owned by Green Bay (an arrangement the NFL now bans for any other franchise). What do we see in other cities? Teams extorating massive tax breaks from cities, counties and states to build massive stadiums at taxpayer expense without the team having to give up anything. The KC Chiefs are rumbling about leaving because the city didn't pass a sales tax increase to pay for upgrades to Arrowhead Stadium.

I don't know why anyone is surprised by any of this anymore.

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#55

The author estimates that electricity prices would be reduced by up to 33% (from $0.45 blended rate to $0.30), but PG&E’s profit margins are only 11%. That’s a good hint that this hypothetical is missing some important details The article hedges against someone pointing this out by admitting that Walnut Creek is an unusually optimistic location and that PG&E is also recognizing large expenses related to ongoing infra…

I don’t think profit margin is the correct way to calculate their expenses. For one, it includes expenses outside of the municipality. For another, corporations are often okay overspending on executive compensation and other lavish business expenses for tax purposes.

Governments are often okay overspending on government contracts.

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#56
If PG&E could be undercut by 25%, then why are there no private companies doing it? Either it is not as profitable as the author claims, or PG&E's monopoly is due to state regulations (I don't know enough about the specifics) and it would be quite contradictory to demand the state solve the problems it created.

Overall it reads like any other socialist argument for nationalizing (in this case "municipalizing") companies, which does not work both on theoretical grounds and based on historical experience. The claim "Walnut Creek could borrow from its utility in recessions, and loan money during booms" is laughable. We know how that ends: the city would finance its deficits with utility money until the company is bankrupt.

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think profit margin is the correct way to calculate their expenses. For one, it includes expenses outside of the municipality. For another, corporations are often okay overspending on executive compensation and other lavish business expenses for tax purposes.

Governments are often okay overspending on government contracts.

What about

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the fact that PG&E rejected the offer is why I adjusted the figure for Walnut Creek's population and then increased it by 50%. The fact is muni borrowing is cheap - even if PG&E charged $1 billion we could finance that for about six cents per kilowatt hour. I don't think the CPUC will let them get away with "we won't sell at any price" - I think the regulators would force them to sell at some price.

PG&E surely knows that if it lets one city do this, then more will follow quickly. It will be left with the least profitable regions and cities that can't afford to/don't have the credit for this transition. That would ultimately leave the remaining customers in an even less affordable position.

Maybe these expensive-to-serve regions need a different model of power generation.

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#59
> It costs a lot of money to deliver power to rural customers

Utilities (generally) have a universal service obligation.

If someone can cherry-pick just the denser areas with lower distribution costs, of course they could "undercut" the utility with the requirement to serve everyone.

(I'm not saying that PG&E couldn't be better managed. I'm saying that there's a much, much deeper policy issue at stake here.)

Re: Cities can cost effectively start their own utilities

#60

The author estimates that electricity prices would be reduced by up to 33% (from $0.45 blended rate to $0.30), but PG&E’s profit margins are only 11%. That’s a good hint that this hypothetical is missing some important details The article hedges against someone pointing this out by admitting that Walnut Creek is an unusually optimistic location and that PG&E is also recognizing large expenses related to ongoing infra…

What is PG&Es generation cost vs administrative and legal overhead? The 11% margin isn't a good basis number. How is other states like Texas or Colorado are delivering at 10-12c/kwh ?

I do agree with your sentiment that city bureaucrats may be tempted to raid the energy business to pay for pet projects and other things. This can be protected against by segmenting the energy business into its own protected organization.

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