641–650 of 1001 posts
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I'm a Rust coder who also occasionally watches Prime, and I've never seen Prime casually pour gasoline on fires. Yes his whole business model is reacting to whatever content is hot right now, but he always does so in a considerate and non inflammatory manner. He's not a fan of Rust for totally legitimate reasons.
If not Rust, what does he prefer? Zig?
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> Arguably his reprimand of Martin is a clear signal that he will never show Rust any favor That doesn't really have anything to do with Rust; but with Hector's behaviour. Threatening a social media campaign to out people is completely toxic behaviour. This is a long-term contributor who is perhaps a bit abrasive, not Jimmy fucking Saville. Other than that, it's not a binary yes/no question; no one is really against…
> Other than that, it's not a binary yes/no question; no one is really against some Rust in some parts of the kernel, but which parts? How? Where? That's the big disagreement. Linus has always been fairly hands-off on these types of disagreements. Some Kernel maintainers are absolutely against Rust anywhere in the kernel tree [0]: > The only reason Linux managed to survive so long is by not having internal boundaries…
Perhaps rusts potential benefits are worth it, but it's certainly possible to disagree with that
The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…
It feels like over the year he has been sort of beaten into submission both for his outbursts (which I've always found more funny than offensive) and the lobbying of the zealots of a certain relatively young programming language (which sometimes has a little taste of propaganda) against "memory unsafe languages".
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A decision to include Rust in the kernel isn't a decision to include any patches from any specific person with no questions asked. It's valid for maintainers to reject a patch even if you disagree with the reason. Repeatedly causing social media storms to "shame" them for doing so, Marcan's own word BTW, isn't. Rust is young and efforts to use it in kernel programming is even more so. It's completely understandable f…
I'm sorry, but no. Christoph clearly didn't even spend 5 seconds looking at the patches before rejecting them. His first objection was obviously false, and when this was pointed out he fell back on blanket objection to rust without any real technical argument.
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> He didn't say this at all. Okay, sorry. He just said there should be no rust in the kernel. You can ascribe bad faith motivations when someone presents technical objections that are already fully answered in the patch that was submitted, and when this is pointed out, they admit that, but don't retract their objections. The original objections are specifically not a case of differing values or design ideas. They are…
> Okay, sorry. He just said there should be no rust in the kernel. That's also not what he said; it's "no Rust in kernel/dma". He pretty much explicitly said it's okay for drivers to do their thing in Rust, but with their own wrappers. You can consider that dumb, but you can't shorten that to "no Rust in the kernel". And "I replied to your objections, therefore the matter is settled" is arrogant beyond belief. People…
Have you actually taken a look at the patch?
There was NO RUST CODE ADDED TO kernel/dma, they wanted to add a dma wrapper to a rust/ folder.
Marcan certainly can be abrasive (I mean lol, so can Linus), but all the things he points out in the message below are 100% valid - I highly recommend for anyone here to try to contribute something even very small and logical to the Linux kernel or git (which use similar processes), it’s an eye-opening experience that’s incredibly unapproachable, frustrating, and demoralizing. https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/2…
I'm tired of anaphoras. And he's not just abrasive He's a troublemaker. Seriously, code of conduct violation? It was perfectly clear what Hellwig meant by "cancer".
No, it is not perfectly clear.
The generous interpretation is that they meant it is "viral", spreading through dependencies across the codebase (which I don't think is technically accurate as long as CONFIG_RUST=n exists).
The less generous way to interpret it is "harmful". The later messages in the thread suggests that this is more likely.
But I'm left guessing here, and I'm willing to give some some benefit of doubt here.
That said, the response to this comment was incredibly bad as well.
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He literally called "Rust" a "cancer".
He literally did not. He literally explicitly said right there in the (in)famous "cancer" message that it didn't refer to Rust as a language.[1] "And I also do not want another maintainer. If you want to make Linux impossible to maintain due to a cross-language codebase do that in your driver so that you have to do it instead of spreading this cancer to core subsystems. (where this cancer explicitly is a cross-langua…
No, he didnt refer to Rust as cancer, but to Rust in the Linux kernel / the R4L project.
The frustration seems justified. Spending significant time adapting core kernel code or developing a safe Rust abstraction for DMA, only to be summarily shut down by a single gatekeeper who cites "not wanting multiple languages" is demotivating. It's especially incongruent given that others have championed Rust in the kernel, and Linux has begun hosting Rust modules. If the project leadership — i.e. Linus — truly wan…
> Spending significant time adapting core kernel code or developing a safe Rust abstraction for DMA, only to be summarily shut down by a single gatekeeper who cites "not wanting multiple languages" is demotivating Christoph Hellwig is one of the oldest subsystem maintainer. Maybe the Rust developer shall have a more careful behaviour. Nobody wants to break core kernel code.
Also it's not his domain, from Marcan's Reddit response Greg is one in charge of maintaining this area.
So this is drive by reviewing.
The rust folks should make a Linux compatible kernel and distros that include a stripped down Linux kernel as a compatibility layer for legacy software.