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NIH slashes overhead payments for research

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41–50 of 78 posts

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#41

One of the main issues with overhead on grants is that it has nothing to do with overhead on the research itself. It’s instead a tax that a university applies to money that researchers bring in, that they use as general revenue to fund, for lack of a better term, bullshit including hiring more admin instead of professors. A $8M grant doesn’t cost a university any more than a $1M grant for university admin in terms of…

You don't seem to have any experience with the subject. The "overhead" in question is, for example, the person who keeps clean glassware in inventory for chemistry, or the veterinarian for animal subjects, or the ethics board.

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#42
post #41

One of the main issues with overhead on grants is that it has nothing to do with overhead on the research itself. It’s instead a tax that a university applies to money that researchers bring in, that they use as general revenue to fund, for lack of a better term, bullshit including hiring more admin instead of professors. A $8M grant doesn’t cost a university any more than a $1M grant for university admin in terms of…

You don't seem to have any experience with the subject. The "overhead" in question is, for example, the person who keeps clean glassware in inventory for chemistry, or the veterinarian for animal subjects, or the ethics board.

[flagged]

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#43
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>tiny slivers We have a saying in Japan that goes: "Even dust piled up will make a mountain." Considering the monies concerned here are also tax dollars , I am wholly unsympathetic to the actual monetary sums. They could be 1 cent and my feelings on this matter wouldn't change: Audit every single line item and slash anything wasteful. Collateral damage is unavoidable, and more importantly I don't care about collatera…

The key issue is we're not getting audits, we're only getting indiscriminate cuts . I understand the concerns around using funds effectively, and I agree there's a lot of waste out there, but some of that is just required in the research space to learn. If we knew what to fund to do something, it's no longer research, it's engineering. Overhaul the grant system to ensure that there's additional scrutiny in getting fu…

The time for measured approaches is long gone. Any administration of the last 50 years could have done that. But they didn't. It's time to slash and burn.

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#44
post #41

One of the main issues with overhead on grants is that it has nothing to do with overhead on the research itself. It’s instead a tax that a university applies to money that researchers bring in, that they use as general revenue to fund, for lack of a better term, bullshit including hiring more admin instead of professors. A $8M grant doesn’t cost a university any more than a $1M grant for university admin in terms of…

You don't seem to have any experience with the subject. The "overhead" in question is, for example, the person who keeps clean glassware in inventory for chemistry, or the veterinarian for animal subjects, or the ethics board.

[flagged]

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding sources themselves, especially with capital expenditures for purchases $10K or higher. They want to make sure PIs are spending money on actual program equipment that's being used, and not just turning around and selling it on Ebay to line their pockets. I've dealt with this first hand because I'm a PI myself. I hate having to waste my valuable time dealing with the inventory person every couple months, but we…

That’s interesting. In Canada the issue is that funding sources don’t care if you’re somewhat irresponsible with capital expenditures (though not to the point of personal enrichment), but are loathe to give you any money for personnel.

> I’ve dealt with this all first hand ... In Canada ...

Consider sitting this one out.

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#46
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. I remember my university taking 35% off the top of all grants for a lab that was 30 years old (hadnt been updated), and a sufficient but hardly cutting edge instrument room. The university was getting far more money than if the PI rented lab space at an incubator.

That's a naive understanding of grant overheads. Only a portion of the overhead is used for facilities and services directly used by the PI and their lab. The rest are better understood as federal subsidies to research universities. The funds are allocated according to the ability of the university to win competitive grants, rather than via a political process or a rigidly specified funding model. At my university, 4…

Sorry, that argument falls flat.

We're talking about schools with multi-billion dollar endowments, new sports stadiums, branded new facilities, fat tuition fees from international students and a ton of pet projects by the university.

But no, the NIH needs to "subsidize" general fund through NIH grants?

> The university is free to spend them as it sees fit, rather than according to what some big important outsider says.

That's fine, but let's not pervert the research funding mechanism by puffing up indirect costs to pay for things that have nothing to do with research.

That seems reasonable to me?

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#47
post #29

no fan if this gov but I always found the university cut if grants designated for specific things too high. In many US universtiies the professors don't get a sallary if they don't bring in grants. And with such a big overhead universiteis sure want it this way. In some Euro universiteis like ETH Zurich or Max Planck instituties the prof's get a pretty good baseline funding from the institutional funding (given top d…

Swiss universities aren’t shabby, they were building a Swiss cheese building at EPFL when I was there. But ya, landscaping was mostly done by goats (really!). American universities are pretty luxurious in comparison.

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#48
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I demanded he be in jail but somehow you voted for a convicted felon over a prosecutor.

What was it like voting for Kamala in the primary?

It was good. I voted for Biden which was implicitly a vote for Kamala. I don’t think this was an actual concern given that only partisans - definitionally - vote in non competitive incumbent primaries.

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#49
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a naive understanding of grant overheads. Only a portion of the overhead is used for facilities and services directly used by the PI and their lab. The rest are better understood as federal subsidies to research universities. The funds are allocated according to the ability of the university to win competitive grants, rather than via a political process or a rigidly specified funding model. At my university, 4…

Sorry, that argument falls flat. We're talking about schools with multi-billion dollar endowments, new sports stadiums, branded new facilities, fat tuition fees from international students and a ton of pet projects by the university. But no, the NIH needs to "subsidize" general fund through NIH grants? > The university is free to spend them as it sees fit, rather than according to what some big important outsider say…

I believe the median endowment of an R1 university is around $1 billion. That corresponds to $30 million to $40 million of sustained income a year. Enough to fund a single reasonably large academic department, or about as much as grant overheads.

Except that universities usually can't use their endowments as they see fit. Big donors often prefer funding fancy buildings and other singular things over daily operations.

Tuition fees are already too low in most public research universities. Combined with the decline of state funding over the decades, many of them are now facing major budget cuts. Take away grant overheads, and you'll start seeing tenured faculty laid off and entire departments closing.

And this is not a perversion of the research funding mechanism but deliberate policy. Back in my previous life, when I was somewhat involved in educational policy in another country, I saw a shift to a similar policy partially inspired by what was already done in the US. The government took a big chunk of core funding for universities, gave the money to research funders, and significantly increased overhead rates. Instead of awarding money based on opaque negotiations between universities and the government, which were prone to corruption, that money would be given according to competitiveness in research.

Re: NIH slashes overhead payments for research

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's optimistic to think they'll be better off in the long term, personally. Other countries are ready to jump in as soon as the US appears deficient at something, even if it is a temporary deficiency. If the US ends up temporarily behind in AI research due to this, for example, it's unlikely they catch back up IMO. If you get behind, everybody is just going to start looking at whoever is ahead and the rich w…

How long have European nations existed versus the USA?

The actual constituted nations of Europe as they exist today? Aside from the UK, not long. Most of them are states that came into existence in the 20th century. Germany was the 1980's. The rest are generally 19th century.
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