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Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

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Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a valid reason to reject a patch when the decision to include the second language in the kernel has already been made.

A decision to include Rust in the kernel isn't a decision to include any patches from any specific person with no questions asked. It's valid for maintainers to reject a patch even if you disagree with the reason. Repeatedly causing social media storms to "shame" them for doing so, Marcan's own word BTW, isn't. Rust is young and efforts to use it in kernel programming is even more so. It's completely understandable f…

> A decision to include Rust in the kernel isn't a decision to include any patches from any specific person with no questions asked.

This is not what's happening.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#572

By the time Rust is welcome in the Linux kernel, projects like Redox will be full fledged competitors. I'd bet Hector would be welcomed there. https://www.redox-os.org

It's taken Wayland 16 years to become a serious alternative to X11. You think a whole kernel can do it faster?

Well, with AGI...

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#573
post #27

The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…

I agree that Linus should have made a clear statement. > Maybe he knows he should, but he fears the shitstorm it will cause. I always felt that the Rust community is creating a huge social pressure on lots of projects. Rust was more forced into the Linux kernel than being welcomed by Linus and many core maintainers. The pronounced evangelism (not a compliment!) in the Rust community is not only off-putting by being a…

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Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#574

There will be a similar drama when Zig reaches 1.0. There will be a bunch of Ziggers trying to get it into the kernal. The Rust fad is already slowing down. Maybe it's a good idea to wait 10-15 years before trying to rewrite the universe in a "memory safe" language and pushing that upstream.

Maybe, I think it's more likely that a Zig soft fork would first replace the kernel build system and then, with unit tests, piece by piece port the whole beautiful thing. Zig is on a strong path to compile and interact with C better than existing C compilers.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#575

There will be a similar drama when Zig reaches 1.0. There will be a bunch of Ziggers trying to get it into the kernal. The Rust fad is already slowing down. Maybe it's a good idea to wait 10-15 years before trying to rewrite the universe in a "memory safe" language and pushing that upstream.

Maybe, I think it's more likely that a Zig soft fork would first replace the kernel build system and then, with unit tests, piece by piece port the whole beautiful thing. Zig is on a strong path to compile and interact with C better than existing C compilers.

I like Zig a lot over Rust but I guess people should give it a while (10y) before attempting something like that. Zig isn’t even 1.0 yet and it’s not going to be for at least 2 more years.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, apparently it doesn't.

Well, apparently nobody even noticed for 5 years, so that's 5 years that nobody had to even think about that code.

People just think "that's Linux, it's buggy and we have to live with it"

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree The more I hear about "community" the more I roll my eyes It can be great at doing the work but it is awful at setting direction, evolving with the times and focusing on what's important Going by another story on the front page, I have my long list of criticism about systemd but the "get things done" attitude needed to be commended

What an absolutely awful statement about one of the most successful community projects ever. Direction usually comes from the community and the maintainers just steer it. Little in the kernel comes from maintainers saying "let's do X" and community members implementing it

See how slow Wayland progress has been for an example of my grudges with that model of development

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#578
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I never submitted a patch personally, I had once conferred with some of the input devs to add a trackpad to the synaptics driver... they were queueing up an update to add other trackpads, and they said they would add mine... 5 years later, it's still not there. It was just a one-liner, and I'm not really sure why it never got added... On the other hand, I once ran into an issue with uboot where a bad update kno…

People forget things etc. Should probably have just asked again, or sent a small one-line patch. It's "mention something on Slack" vs "creating a GitHub issue/PR"

Which sounds inefficient and exactly the sort of problem that doesn't happen with a Github issue/PR.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#579
post #2

For context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42926732 https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CAHk-=wi=ZmP2=TmHsFSU...

How is this not the top comment? I was scratching my head wondering until I found your links.

So the smackdown from Linus is what motivated it. Honestly though if you read the email Linus is replying to, it was deserved. To be fair, Hector Martin may be one of the smartest hackers alive today. His fame goes way back to hacking the Playstation 3 with geohot and Hector has even found security vulnerabilities in Apple Silicon. He's done great work with Asahi Linux by weaponizing his keen penetrating mind to support open source freedom. But like his buddy geohot he can be a bit childish. Right now Hector seems to be laying low. His social media accounts are no longer accessible. It seems even archive.org and archive.today have no recollection of him. That's impressive.

So what triggered him to act out of character? It seems like he wrote his Apple GPU driver in Rust and he needed Rust DMA support in the kernel. I know, a curious thing for a Rust developer to want more power to do things that are memory unsafe. So the DMA maintainer Christoph Hellwig hates Rust. He thinks Rust is a cancer in the kernel. Cristoph refused to help Martin create Rust APIs for DMA. That's why he went ballistic.

Chances are they'll all make up when this blows over, or someone will just rewrite his GPU driver in C. There's not going to be as big of a push for Rust with this recent government. For example, the White House recently took down its paper about the future of programming being memory safe. The money for Rust is going to dry up. It's becoming socially acceptable to push back against efforts to convert everyone to Rust.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#580
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the current drama, I'm glad someone of his stature agrees with and can call out the horrible processes and tooling involved in the kernel. Using email and a pile of hacks to mess around with patches just sounds nuts and makes it so much harder to understand or contribute. I don't think decentralized necessitates such a terrible workflow - you can run a local website with a distributed DB, distributed git forg…

Afaik Linus tried Github in the past, but had several significant complaints about it hiding information, messing with basic git operations, generating bad commit messages, etc. . So it is not as if they wouldn't use something better, there just isn't anything that has feature parity with a workflow they have been optimizing for decades.

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