Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

Post by GabrielTFS » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 2:49 AM UTC

apatheticonion wrote: post #455

gpm wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're discounting the very real damage that would be done by Linux a project controlled by Linus and a community being replaced by Linux a project controlled by Google/Samsung/Redhat/Microsoft. I'm afraid that this is what is going to happen with the Linus tree effectively rejecting rust drivers by subjecting anyone attempting to upstream rust code to persistent bullying, but I don't want it to happen.

Does Linux have the ability to load drivers dynamically (like Windows)? Is there a reason why developers don't develop drivers outside of the kernel and have users simply install them post-install?

Post by apatheticonion » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 2:56 AM UTC

zinekeller wrote: post #460

apatheticonion wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Linux have the ability to load drivers dynamically (like Windows)? Is there a reason why developers don't develop drivers outside of the kernel and have users simply install them post-install?

Yes, it technically does (kernel modules), but the difference between Linux and NT is that Microsoft guarantees (as much as possible) that its ABIs are stable whereas Linux explicitly does not preserve backwards compatibility in the kernel (only the userspace is the stable interface).

Post by gcr » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 3:01 AM UTC

apatheticonion wrote: post #463

sgerenser wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can, but Linux does not have a stable driver ABI. Whoever wrote the out-of-tree drivers would have to constantly update them whenever there was a breaking change to the kernel, which I understand is relatively common.

That's interesting. Dumb question but why doesn't Linux aim for a stable driver ABI? Does it impede delivery speed? I think nvidia uses out-of-tree drivers that are dynamically loaded - does that mean that nvidia drivers are tied to specific kernel versions?

Post by stycznik » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 3:05 AM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #373

ouraf wrote: post #334

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Maybe it's because of Linus' age or because the players involved are bigger than many past issues, but the way I see it, both decisions are really costly: - Endorse Rust with little reserve and over half of the C++ devs will feel betrayed and quit supporting the Linux project. They've been working on C++ for Decades and things mostly worked, so they won't pivot for a new language and way of developing for something t…

> over half of the C++ devs will feel betrayed and quit supporting the Linux project. They've been working on C++ for Decades and things mostly worked, so they won't pivot for a new language and way of developing for something that exists for less than 30 years. You mean C? C++ has been dead and buried for years and there are 0 kernel devs thinking that C++ will ever be allowed in (that idea was killed in the 00s if…

Post by noobermin » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 3:08 AM UTC

agoodusername63 wrote: post #292

arp242 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguably his reprimand of Martin is a clear signal that he will never show Rust any favor That doesn't really have anything to do with Rust; but with Hector's behaviour. Threatening a social media campaign to out people is completely toxic behaviour. This is a long-term contributor who is perhaps a bit abrasive, not Jimmy fucking Saville. Other than that, it's not a binary yes/no question; no one is really against…

I'm usually very critical of how Torvolds treats the people around him and the culture he maintains but this is a rare case when I'm not really against Torvalds on this. I've had to remove Hector's postings from my feeds because he just constantly bitches and complains about pretty much everything. He's capable, smart, and is doing more than anybody ever will for Apple hardware. But he desperately needs to Stop Posti…