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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#281

Post by scarface_74 »

snapcaster wrote: post #110
botanical76 wrote: post #91

This is so disheartening. I thought we were making progress in the anti-surveillance privacy narrative, but this says otherwise. As a UK citizen, is there anything I can do to dissuade this? edit: typo

In my mind, the only way to beat these efforts for good is to win hearts and minds of the larger public. Currently because only weirdos like us care about this stuff, we have to constantly be on top of these things and writing letters making posts etc. Overall i agree with you, it is really disheartening. That being said, i've made progress with my family on valuing privacy and the dangers of surveillance. I think pe…

Thought experiment: let’s say that Trump said that he thinks Apple is helping hide illegal immigrants because they are communicating with each other over channels that ICE can’t decrypt, how much pressure do you think he could put on legislatures to pass a law here?

Now let’s say that some Republican Senators and Representatives were ethically opposed to but then threatened to be primaried and President Musk said he would throw all of his money behind a potential opponent, how long do you think it would take a law to be passed?

Even without a law, we already see that Cook will willingly bend a knee to Trump as will Google.

Right now in my home state the governor was trying to get a law passed banning Western Union from allowing illegal immigrants from sending money overseas.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#282

Post by madeofpalk »

briandear wrote: post #260
maeil wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a UK citizen, is there anything I can do to dissuade this? If you voted for this Tory-lite government, then you can stop voting for any future Tory-lite governments. If you did not, there's not much you can do in practice without devoting your life to it.

Wait. The Tories aren’t in power yet you want to attribute this to “Tory-lite?” It’s the Labour Party that is in charge, so why not put the blame on the actual perpetrators? Is it because you don’t want Labour getting blamed? I am confused. The Labour Party is the one jailing people for speech, so it follows that they would want backdoors into iCloud so they can better investigate ThoughtCrime. The director of public…

Parent seems to be attempting to discredit, not protect, Labour by calling them "Tory-lite".

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#283

Post by Take8435 »

derbOac wrote: post #271
latexr wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is exactly why I’m making this point. If no government had requested a backdoor, they could’ve simply answered “no”. When you have to weight your words, it means you’re not at liberty to say whatever you want. That is itself a signal, and why warrant canaries are a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary

You're right to point out how carefully worded these statements are. But I suspect it's rare for companies of Google's status to not have been asked for a backdoor. It's not really an informative question to ask Google.

Can you elaborate on why you say it is not informative?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#284

Post by hk1337 »

bnjms wrote: post #252
bilekas wrote: post #79

> requires that Apple creates a back door that allows UK security officials unencumbered access to encrypted user data worldwide How could this even be enforced if Apple pulls out cloud services of the UK ? It's such a ridiculous request, the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good.

> the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good. We know they collude with US intelligence serviceUS

By collude, you mean responding to subpoenas they are legally obliged to respond to?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#285

Post by csomar »

jibe wrote: post #185
elashri wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived to the day that we give an example on china not doing something stupid a western democracy does about rights and freedom. Wild times to be alive. I am also surprised that they demand worldwide access and not just UK users data or all the data stored in UK jurisdiction. But this is going too far.

China has forced Apple to outsource iCloud in China to a state run company, so all data is just directly controlled by the government there. It’s an even worse situation. https://support.apple.com/en-us/111754

How is this worse? This only affects users in China.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#286

Post by scarface_74 »

tacomagick wrote: post #270
scarface_74 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as far as we know there is no encryption back door

"As far as we know" is the most important part.

Don’t you think out of the thousands of Apple employees that someone would leak it?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#288

Post by joey_spaztard »

My response would be along the lines of:

"The USA fought a war in part because they did not like the use of general writs of assistance to allow agents of the British King to search peoples houses and papers where their suspicion chanced to fall. The UK lost that war so no way!"

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#289

Post by lysace »

latexr wrote: post #229
em500 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before people immediately think the worst of Google or other corporate representatives, be aware that people working in these companies need to weight their words carefully. From The Verge's article on the issue: The UK has reportedly served Apple a document called a technical capability notice. It’s a criminal offense to even reveal that the government has made a demand. Similarly, if Apple did cede to the UK’s dema…

Which is exactly why I’m making this point. If no government had requested a backdoor, they could’ve simply answered “no”. When you have to weight your words, it means you’re not at liberty to say whatever you want. That is itself a signal, and why warrant canaries are a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary

That concept has always sounded like tech people trying to hack the law without the proper real-world legal knowledge, IMO.

Bruce Schneier wrote in a blog post that "[p]ersonally, I have never believed [warrant canaries] would work. It relies on the fact that a prohibition against speaking doesn't prevent someone from not speaking. But courts generally aren't impressed by this sort of thing, and I can easily imagine a secret warrant that includes a prohibition against triggering the warrant canary.

Lots of similar discussion on HN already, e.g. in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5871541.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#290

Post by Take8435 »

throwaway290 wrote: post #247

Surprising that UK specifically demanded a worldwide backdoor, not just backdoor for UK citizens. Looks like a good workaround for this US gov to get info on Americans via 5 eyes. DOGE was recently unable to obtain data on Americans ( https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/elon-musks-doge-deal... ), maybe related...

> DOGE was recently unable to obtain data on Americans (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/elon-musks-doge-deal...), maybe related..

They had read/write data for a few days before being denied access https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-associate-bfs-federal-...

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