Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

elering.ee

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 81 posts

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#61

Post by flanked-evergl »

wewxjfq wrote: post #58
toss1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, it came out of the Merkel government, which was notoriously Russia-appeasing, and while popular at the time, it's reputation is rapidly rotting under the gaze of recent history where Russia assaults Ukraine attempting to eliminate the very concept of Ukraine as an entity and independent people, and threatens all of Europe.

Serious question: What brings people to write these comments? It's so tiresome. Always the same twaddle. Merkel was not notoriously Russia-appeasing, she was notoriously German industry appeasing. She didn't stop a business consortium of several large European energy companies from building a new pipeline to Russia, but neither did any leader of the other European countries involved, nor would have any other German c…

Merkel's active policy was making Germany dependent on Russian gas to the point where Russia thought that there was no way Germany would ever oppose their annexation of Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/merkel-no-regrets-energ...

In fact, when Trump warned Germany of the risk their diplomats at the UN was laughing at him.

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#62

Post by cingraa »

wewxjfq wrote: post #58
toss1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, it came out of the Merkel government, which was notoriously Russia-appeasing, and while popular at the time, it's reputation is rapidly rotting under the gaze of recent history where Russia assaults Ukraine attempting to eliminate the very concept of Ukraine as an entity and independent people, and threatens all of Europe.

Serious question: What brings people to write these comments? It's so tiresome. Always the same twaddle. Merkel was not notoriously Russia-appeasing, she was notoriously German industry appeasing. She didn't stop a business consortium of several large European energy companies from building a new pipeline to Russia, but neither did any leader of the other European countries involved, nor would have any other German c…

Many people are influenced by those USAID-sponsored trolls. Then they even act against their self-interest.

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#63

Post by cingraa »

jmyeet wrote: post #45

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has clearly reshaped Europe and it's impossible to tell what the long term impacts will be. Some random thoughts: 1. It clearly strengthened NATO, with Finland and Sweden joining and member nations increasing military spending; 2. It revealed Russia's military as a paper tiger and exposed the rampant corruption; 3. It became apparent that neither Ukraine nor Russia could "win" militari…

Did you write this just now?

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#64

Post by corund »

jmyeet wrote: post #45

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has clearly reshaped Europe and it's impossible to tell what the long term impacts will be. Some random thoughts: 1. It clearly strengthened NATO, with Finland and Sweden joining and member nations increasing military spending; 2. It revealed Russia's military as a paper tiger and exposed the rampant corruption; 3. It became apparent that neither Ukraine nor Russia could "win" militari…

10 - are you sure? Turkey closed Bosphorus Strait for warships in 2022, there is no way to get damaged warship from Black sea to Syria

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#65

Post by ankbnwa »

wewxjfq wrote: post #58
toss1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, it came out of the Merkel government, which was notoriously Russia-appeasing, and while popular at the time, it's reputation is rapidly rotting under the gaze of recent history where Russia assaults Ukraine attempting to eliminate the very concept of Ukraine as an entity and independent people, and threatens all of Europe.

Serious question: What brings people to write these comments? It's so tiresome. Always the same twaddle. Merkel was not notoriously Russia-appeasing, she was notoriously German industry appeasing. She didn't stop a business consortium of several large European energy companies from building a new pipeline to Russia, but neither did any leader of the other European countries involved, nor would have any other German c…

Yes, it is tiresome. There was this famous Trump video where he opposed NATO members on the question of Nordstream 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JpwkeTBwgs

On social media it is spun as "the Germans laughed at him", when the person sitting in the middle opposite Trump is the Norwegian Jens Stoltenberg, NATO secretary and usually a willing US tool. It was all of Europe together.

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#66

Post by ankbnwa »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #61
wewxjfq wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: What brings people to write these comments? It's so tiresome. Always the same twaddle. Merkel was not notoriously Russia-appeasing, she was notoriously German industry appeasing. She didn't stop a business consortium of several large European energy companies from building a new pipeline to Russia, but neither did any leader of the other European countries involved, nor would have any other German c…

Merkel's active policy was making Germany dependent on Russian gas to the point where Russia thought that there was no way Germany would ever oppose their annexation of Ukraine. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/merkel-no-regrets-energ... In fact, when Trump warned Germany of the risk their diplomats at the UN was laughing at him.

Merkel is a product of the cold war. For her NATO expansion that includes Ukraine was unthinḱable, and most people who lived through the cold war would agree. She never promoted NATO expansion. She thought that through careful diplomacy both peace and trade could be maintained. The US interfered in that.

More importantly, the EU has imported Russian gas through various land pipelines all the time. Nordstream was supposed to secure against various disputes where Ukraine stole Russian gas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dis...

"Naftogaz admitted that because of harsh winter (lower than minus 30C) some natural gas intended for other European countries was retained and used for domestic needs."

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#67

Post by jmyeet »

corund wrote: post #64
jmyeet wrote: post #45

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has clearly reshaped Europe and it's impossible to tell what the long term impacts will be. Some random thoughts: 1. It clearly strengthened NATO, with Finland and Sweden joining and member nations increasing military spending; 2. It revealed Russia's military as a paper tiger and exposed the rampant corruption; 3. It became apparent that neither Ukraine nor Russia could "win" militari…

10 - are you sure? Turkey closed Bosphorus Strait for warships in 2022, there is no way to get damaged warship from Black sea to Syria

This is complicated. For context, there's a 1936 international treaty that regulates traversal of the Bosporus Straits called the Montreux convention [1]. it generally allows the passage of warships with a couple of exceptions and it depends on if Turkey is at war or not.

What happened in 2022 is that Turkey decided Russia's invasion was a "war" (in the context of a treaty) and thus limited access to the Black Sea to Russian warships. But that comes with a couple of restrictions.

The most notable one is that Russia is allowed to use the passage for ships based in the Black Sea and that was important. Ukraine could (and did) attack ships in Sevastopol and when that happened, they would have to retreat to repair (if possible). And they went to Syria to do that one several occasions.

Turkey's relationship with Europe, NATO, the US and Russia is... complicated. Like Turkey is the largest military in NATO (other than the US of course) and does pretty much whatever the US tells them to, but they also buy Russian armaments (eg missile systems) and the US has stationed nuclear weapons in Turkey. And while buying Russian arms, Turkey is selling drones to Ukraine who is using them to attack Russia. And Turkey, despite being a NATO member, has been at war with Greece, another NATO member.

Russia also has used internal waterways to bypass the Bosporus Straits [2].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_...

[2]: http://www.hisutton.com/Russian-Navys-Secret-Internal-Waterw...

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#68

Post by flohofwoe »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #38
urcite_ty_kokos wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Královec in Czech.

Good to know, thanks. It’s reasonable to expect language-specific names, just strange to see it in English (even in German that is a bit weird).

It's more like a running joke by now, giving Královec 'back' to the Czech Republic means they could finally have a proper overseas harbor and a Navy. Just think of the possibilities :)

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#69

Post by flohofwoe »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #61
wewxjfq wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: What brings people to write these comments? It's so tiresome. Always the same twaddle. Merkel was not notoriously Russia-appeasing, she was notoriously German industry appeasing. She didn't stop a business consortium of several large European energy companies from building a new pipeline to Russia, but neither did any leader of the other European countries involved, nor would have any other German c…

Merkel's active policy was making Germany dependent on Russian gas to the point where Russia thought that there was no way Germany would ever oppose their annexation of Ukraine. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/merkel-no-regrets-energ... In fact, when Trump warned Germany of the risk their diplomats at the UN was laughing at him.

It was really Schroeder who got us into that mess, and gas heating for homes was already very popular in the 1990s in Germany (and none of the home owners really asked or cared where that cheap gas is actually coming from).

Trump was laughed at because it was obvious that he wanted us to buy US gas at a premium instead - not because he was 'concerned' about Germany's dependence on Russian gas (and also - of course - because he's a blithering idiot).

In any case, the discussion is about the Baltics getting more independent from Russia (hooray!), not about Germany :)

Re: Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

#70

Post by IndrekR »

cingraa wrote: post #7

Cost of electricity in Russia: $0.05 Cost of electricity in Estonia: $0.26 Painful.

2024 average electricity price in Estonia was 0.08727 €/kWh. There was no trading with Russia during this time. This is open data. I have no idea where you get the 0.26USD figure.

Source: https://data.nordpoolgroup.com/auction/day-ahead/prices?deli...

Post reply on HN