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Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

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Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#31

Post by chippiewill »

gary_0 wrote: post #27

The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…

> Arguably his reprimand of Martin is a clear signal that he will never show Rust any favor

His reprimand is a clear signal that he won't tolerate brigading. Marcan was making a pretty blatant attempt at using social pressure to influence decisions.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#32

Post by 7e »

AgentME wrote: post #4

If an individual maintainer can veto critical parts of the Rust for Linux project and announce they'll do everything they can to stop it, then Linus is wasting everyone else's time pretending it's a real project. It's not a proper environment to put contributors in.

[flagged]

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#33

Post by dralley »

gary_0 wrote: post #27

The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…

>Arguably his reprimand of Martin is a clear signal that he will never show Rust any favor

You're reading way too far into this. Linus has been publicly positive about the R4L project plenty of times.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#34

Post by randmeerkat »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #6
coldtea wrote: post #3

Martin has worked hard on Asahi, but comes of as looking for drama and virtue signalling oftentimes. I'd give this to Linus.

>but comes of as looking for drama and virtue signalling oftentimes It's easier to name the major Linux FOSS projects that DON'T have drama and virtue signaling than the ones with. If you read the Github comments on System-D, GNOME, etc, it's like watching children bickering on Sega VS Nintendo. Turns out FOSS devs are humas just like everybody else and suffer from the same flaws.

> Turns out FOSS devs are humas just like everybody else and suffer from the same flaws.

It is rather anticlimactic. I had always imagined FOSS to be this free exchange of ideas, thoughtful consideration, and intentional action. Seeing what it has become though… Maybe closed source is better.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#35

Post by duxup »

gary_0 wrote: post #27

The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…

Help me out here because I'm not sure how to navigate the submitted link https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/7/9. Where is this reprimand / can it be seen?

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#37

Post by znpy »

AgentME wrote: post #4

If an individual maintainer can veto critical parts of the Rust for Linux project and announce they'll do everything they can to stop it, then Linus is wasting everyone else's time pretending it's a real project. It's not a proper environment to put contributors in.

I think the core of the issue is expecting people to agree with stuff.

Linux is free software and there's really nobody stopping people from forking it and doing things the way they want. It used to happen all the time once upon a time, nowadays people seems to be afraid of doing it.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#38

Post by duxup »

chippiewill wrote: post #31
gary_0 wrote: post #27

The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…

> Arguably his reprimand of Martin is a clear signal that he will never show Rust any favor His reprimand is a clear signal that he won't tolerate brigading. Marcan was making a pretty blatant attempt at using social pressure to influence decisions.

I'm not arguing that this is or isn't a problem but I think the statement "using social pressure to influence decisions" is so general that it could apply to just any discussion. That's kinda what discussion is.

Granted there are acceptable methods within that, and not acceptable.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#39

Post by rcxdude »

Dalewyn wrote: post #18
Tomte wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has at least said this to Martin: "How about you accept the fact that maybe the problem is you." ( https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CAHk-=wi=ZmP2=TmHsFSU... ) I wouldn‘t expect a grand Rust announcement anytime soon, above what has already been said. Rust in the kernel seems to be fine, but it will have to adapt to longstanding kernel processes. And if it means there won‘t be Rust in some maintainers‘ subsys…

I've conversed with marcan a few times (on completely unrelated and inconsequential things). As far as I know he's a decent man. That said, I'm going to agree with Linus there: Cancel culture ("social media brigading") isn't the solution.

Indeed, but where is the 'real' solution? If no-one higher up is going to step in and merge the patches despite the blocking maintainer, how is "the process" going to move R4L forward?

(Edit: Ok, reading some other context, it seems like this is indeed what's happening, which does make this reaction a little less justified. I can certainly see why it's no fun to have people in the project saying they will do whatever they can to stop an initiative, but if they aren't actually able to block it, then it doesn't seem worth quitting over)

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#40

Post by mauricioc »

duxup wrote: post #35
gary_0 wrote: post #27

The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…

Help me out here because I'm not sure how to navigate the submitted link https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/7/9 . Where is this reprimand / can it be seen?

https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CAHk-=wi=ZmP2=TmHsFSU...

Edit: For further context for Linus's reply, there's http://web.archive.org/web/20250206022420/https://social.tre...

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