[flagged]
Frankly I immediately knew incidents like these would increase when it was added.
Not possible to have rust without the "" community"", it seems.
Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
21–30 of 1001 posts
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#22Marcan certainly can be abrasive (I mean lol, so can Linus), but all the things he points out in the message below are 100% valid - I highly recommend for anyone here to try to contribute something even very small and logical to the Linux kernel or git (which use similar processes), it’s an eye-opening experience that’s incredibly unapproachable, frustrating, and demoralizing. https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/2…
While I never submitted a patch personally, I had once conferred with some of the input devs to add a trackpad to the synaptics driver... they were queueing up an update to add other trackpads, and they said they would add mine... 5 years later, it's still not there. It was just a one-liner, and I'm not really sure why it never got added... On the other hand, I once ran into an issue with uboot where a bad update kno…
> 5 years later, it's still not there. It was just a one-liner, and I'm not really sure why it never got added.
I think they expect people who want things to advocate harder than just mentioning it once. If no one brings it up again, then they assume that no one cares.
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area. About the Rust code itself; the primary issue was code duplication rather than preventing the use of Rust altogether. Since the suggested code is not merged, every driver needs to write…
>That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area. The Rust code is not in the area he was currently maintaining. Christoph didn't even look at the patches before objecting to them. Once it was pointed out that they were not in his area…
If that is true, why he was the one that was asked to review/ or why his opinion even matters here? The must be some sort of correlation to his code or this does not make sense at all..
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#24Marcan certainly can be abrasive (I mean lol, so can Linus), but all the things he points out in the message below are 100% valid - I highly recommend for anyone here to try to contribute something even very small and logical to the Linux kernel or git (which use similar processes), it’s an eye-opening experience that’s incredibly unapproachable, frustrating, and demoralizing. https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/2…
Looks like @marcan deleted his existence on mastodon? Does anyone have a copy of what he said on there?
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area. About the Rust code itself; the primary issue was code duplication rather than preventing the use of Rust altogether. Since the suggested code is not merged, every driver needs to write…
"The common ground is that I have absolutely no interest in helping to spread a multi-language code base. I absolutely support using Rust in new codebase, but I do not at all in Linux." https://lwn.net/ml/all/20250204052916.GA28741@lst.de/ That doesn't sound like he's only talking about in his area to me
It's just in his area where he has the power to say no, and it's important enough to be a big impediment to the whole project.
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The common ground is that I have absolutely no interest in helping to spread a multi-language code base. I absolutely support using Rust in new codebase, but I do not at all in Linux." https://lwn.net/ml/all/20250204052916.GA28741@lst.de/ That doesn't sound like he's only talking about in his area to me
is this just weird religious adherence to the belief that a multi-language codebase will be harder to maintain? what's the rationale, exactly?
Maintainers come and go, languages come and go. C will never go away and everyone working on kernels knows C, so there's a certain labour pool and skillset that will always be available that doesn't necessarily apply to Rust. That's even setting aside any technical issues, like bugs creeping up in the language interoperability layer, which obviously doesn't really happen if you're only using one compiler.
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#27The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stance on C++, for instance.)
As a pilot program, R4L should have graduated or ended a long time ago. After several years of active development, its status remains unclear. Instead of cracking heads to get everyone on the same page, Linus has instead spent all this time sitting back and watching his subordinates fight amongst themselves, only to then place responsibility for the drama on Martin's shoulders. Poor form.
Arguably his reprimand of Martin is a clear signal that he will never show Rust any favor, but he hasn't said anything explicitly. Maybe he knows he should, but he fears the shitstorm it will cause. Maybe it's time for him to rip off the band-aid, though.
And again, all of this could have been avoided if he'd just put his foot down one way or the other. Imagine how much time and energy (even just Martin's alone) could have been saved if Linus had just said "no, keep it downstream".
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
>That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area. The Rust code is not in the area he was currently maintaining. Christoph didn't even look at the patches before objecting to them. Once it was pointed out that they were not in his area…
If that is true, why he was the one that was asked to review/ or why his opinion even matters here? The must be some sort of correlation to his code or this does not make sense at all..
He wasn't asked, he was CC'd on the patchset because it wraps his subsystem. If he was interested in doing a driveby review in good faith, or taking interest in what was going on, then he could have done so.
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#29Marcan certainly can be abrasive (I mean lol, so can Linus), but all the things he points out in the message below are 100% valid - I highly recommend for anyone here to try to contribute something even very small and logical to the Linux kernel or git (which use similar processes), it’s an eye-opening experience that’s incredibly unapproachable, frustrating, and demoralizing. https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/2…
Looks like @marcan deleted his existence on mastodon? Does anyone have a copy of what he said on there?
You can use the waybackmachine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20250204162031/https://social.tr...
However it seem that you need to disable js as soon as the content load or it will be overwritten by a 404
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#30If an individual maintainer can veto critical parts of the Rust for Linux project and announce they'll do everything they can to stop it, then Linus is wasting everyone else's time pretending it's a real project. It's not a proper environment to put contributors in.
I think it's rather silly to have some subsystem maintainers do everything in their power to sabotage the improvement projects by subsystem and even high level maintainers in the kernel. It was a fine position to take back when introduction of Rust into the kernel was still very much a discussion point. However, the discussion is over, Rust has been accepted into the kernel. This entire struggle has been kernel devel…
> This infighting is only going to hurt the kernel in the long run. Every time this "discussion" comes up, I walk away with the feeling that Linux kernel developers are unreasonably hostile and impossible to work with. It makes me wonder why new people would ever bother trying to contribute anything.
Well, this is your take, as you explicitly wrote "I walk away with the feeling". My take is: The kernel developers are the ones doing the actual work, which legitimates their opinion of doing things. If too many people aren't happy with the way the linux kernel is developed, they are free to fork it and develop in the way that they see fit.
Luckily, the kernel seems to be doing fine.