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Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

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Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#11

Post by Dr_Emann »

nicce wrote: post #9
AgentME wrote: post #4

If an individual maintainer can veto critical parts of the Rust for Linux project and announce they'll do everything they can to stop it, then Linus is wasting everyone else's time pretending it's a real project. It's not a proper environment to put contributors in.

That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area. About the Rust code itself; the primary issue was code duplication rather than preventing the use of Rust altogether. Since the suggested code is not merged, every driver needs to write…

"The common ground is that I have absolutely no interest in helping to spread a multi-language code base. I absolutely support using Rust in new codebase, but I do not at all in Linux." https://lwn.net/ml/all/20250204052916.GA28741@lst.de/

That doesn't sound like he's only talking about in his area to me

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#12

Post by Havoc »

From what I can piece together it seems Hector is upset about someone ("Hellwig"?) doing something that was seen as intentionally sabotaging the rust efforts. Hector posted about it on socials. Linus came down on Hector for leveraging socials to fight kernel disputes. Hector quits.

No doubt that is a flawed summary so feel free to correct

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#13

Post by Tomte »

sgt wrote: post #7
AgentME wrote: post #4

If an individual maintainer can veto critical parts of the Rust for Linux project and announce they'll do everything they can to stop it, then Linus is wasting everyone else's time pretending it's a real project. It's not a proper environment to put contributors in.

Give him time, Linus will reach out soon regarding Rust.

He has at least said this to Martin: "How about you accept the fact that maybe the problem is you." (https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CAHk-=wi=ZmP2=TmHsFSU...)

I wouldn‘t expect a grand Rust announcement anytime soon, above what has already been said. Rust in the kernel seems to be fine, but it will have to adapt to longstanding kernel processes. And if it means there won‘t be Rust in some maintainers‘ subsystems, so be it. The kernel won‘t be 100% Rust next year anyway.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#14

Post by [deleted] »

nicce wrote: post #9
AgentME wrote: post #4

If an individual maintainer can veto critical parts of the Rust for Linux project and announce they'll do everything they can to stop it, then Linus is wasting everyone else's time pretending it's a real project. It's not a proper environment to put contributors in.

That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area. About the Rust code itself; the primary issue was code duplication rather than preventing the use of Rust altogether. Since the suggested code is not merged, every driver needs to write…

[deleted]

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#15

Post by nubinetwork »

mplewis9z wrote: post #10

Marcan certainly can be abrasive (I mean lol, so can Linus), but all the things he points out in the message below are 100% valid - I highly recommend for anyone here to try to contribute something even very small and logical to the Linux kernel or git (which use similar processes), it’s an eye-opening experience that’s incredibly unapproachable, frustrating, and demoralizing. https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/2…

While I never submitted a patch personally, I had once conferred with some of the input devs to add a trackpad to the synaptics driver... they were queueing up an update to add other trackpads, and they said they would add mine... 5 years later, it's still not there. It was just a one-liner, and I'm not really sure why it never got added...

On the other hand, I once ran into an issue with uboot where a bad update knocked out my emmc, usb and sata controllers... found an email address of someone developing the dtb files and got in touch with them, and it was fixed in under a week.

At the end of the day, people are weird sometimes. I wish all the best for marcan.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#17

Post by noirscape »

AgentME wrote: post #4

If an individual maintainer can veto critical parts of the Rust for Linux project and announce they'll do everything they can to stop it, then Linus is wasting everyone else's time pretending it's a real project. It's not a proper environment to put contributors in.

He couldn't veto it anyway; by reading the entire thread, you'll see that the maintainer NACKed the request.

After that, Greg KH stepped in (since he was soft asked to help earlier in the thread with an @) to reconfirm that what seems to be the general policy for r4l is followed (aka it'll be a separate file with its own maintainer), with the subtle implication that it would probably just get merged as a separate patch to Linus directly, the complaints of the maintainer be damned.

Marcan's sudden outburst and forcibly adding Linus and Greg to the thread he was responding to came afterwards. You can even see some other rust4linux devs asking him to please not do this, since the situation is under control.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#18

Post by Dalewyn »

Tomte wrote: post #13
sgt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give him time, Linus will reach out soon regarding Rust.

He has at least said this to Martin: "How about you accept the fact that maybe the problem is you." ( https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CAHk-=wi=ZmP2=TmHsFSU... ) I wouldn‘t expect a grand Rust announcement anytime soon, above what has already been said. Rust in the kernel seems to be fine, but it will have to adapt to longstanding kernel processes. And if it means there won‘t be Rust in some maintainers‘ subsys…

I've conversed with marcan a few times (on completely unrelated and inconsequential things). As far as I know he's a decent man.

That said, I'm going to agree with Linus there: Cancel culture ("social media brigading") isn't the solution.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#19

Post by dralley »

nicce wrote: post #9
AgentME wrote: post #4

If an individual maintainer can veto critical parts of the Rust for Linux project and announce they'll do everything they can to stop it, then Linus is wasting everyone else's time pretending it's a real project. It's not a proper environment to put contributors in.

That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area. About the Rust code itself; the primary issue was code duplication rather than preventing the use of Rust altogether. Since the suggested code is not merged, every driver needs to write…

>That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area.

The Rust code is not in the area he was currently maintaining. Christoph didn't even look at the patches before objecting to them. Once it was pointed out that they were not in his area, he rejected them anyway.

Note that, because they are not in his area, he does not actually have the authority to do this. He was CC'd in an advisory sense, it's not really his call to accept them or not, and as a longtime kernel maintainer he surely knows this.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#20

Post by bjord »

Dr_Emann wrote: post #11
nicce wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not what the maintainer said. The maintainer said that for Rust code in the area he is currently maintaining. I think the main issue was, the he was not accepting second maintainer to take care the Rust part on the same area. About the Rust code itself; the primary issue was code duplication rather than preventing the use of Rust altogether. Since the suggested code is not merged, every driver needs to write…

"The common ground is that I have absolutely no interest in helping to spread a multi-language code base. I absolutely support using Rust in new codebase, but I do not at all in Linux." https://lwn.net/ml/all/20250204052916.GA28741@lst.de/ That doesn't sound like he's only talking about in his area to me

is this just weird religious adherence to the belief that a multi-language codebase will be harder to maintain? what's the rationale, exactly?
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