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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#111

Post by duxup »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #98
duxup wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News stories seem to indicate that many criminals use computers just like any given person does. Even people concerned with security who know a little seem to be terrible at it. A local protest group in my area was passing around an image with security tips. They were hilariously bad, suggestions based on very confused understandings of risk. These people weren’t criminals necessarily, but they were motivated and con…

> News stories seem to indicate What's the inverse of survivor bias?

They are still people committing crimes. I don't think that's quite the same as the prototypical survivorship bias would imply.

There is the possibility that there is a great deal more crime being commuted by capable super criminals who understand the nuances of security .... but I'm more of a subscriber to the theory that for "most" crime, it's a lot of stupid people.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#112

Post by snapcaster »

csmattryder wrote: post #100
botanical76 wrote: post #91

This is so disheartening. I thought we were making progress in the anti-surveillance privacy narrative, but this says otherwise. As a UK citizen, is there anything I can do to dissuade this? edit: typo

> I thought we were making progress in the anti-surveillance privacy na[rra]tive What lead to to believe that? The Conservatives and Conservative-Continuity governments both agree that our data simply must be in the hands of the police, DEFRA, and your local council. RIPA will never be repealed and only strengthened.

I don't disagree with your analysis but i wouldn't be so fatalistic. This stuff _isn't_ inevitable and i think it's possible to win people over to our side. Things can change for the better, but they won't unless people who care don't give up

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#113

Post by Havoc »

UK tech laws seem to consistently be the worst of both worlds. Not rights centric like the EU and not business supportive like the US.

Just old people making bad laws about stuff they don't understand - or are straight up citizen hostile, sometimes hard to tell which it is.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#114

Post by Terretta »

reify wrote: post #71

I doubt very much if any terrorist, criminal or child abuser is going to use any google or apple cloud service to back up their files. Anyone with a fundamental understanding of online privacy and security would encrypt any files prior to uploading them to the cloud rendering any back doors and access to those files useless and toothless. I dont use any of these services. I have never understood the thinking around u…

> I have never understood the thinking around uploading your private life to some server in the cloud when they are more secure on an external hard drive at home.

Depends on your threat model. If someone unofficial wanted at what you're doing, they'd likely find it easier to go after your home data than what you have in iCloud -- particularly if using Advanced Data Protection for iCloud.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756

Also, ask the folks in Los Angeles how those external hard drives at home are working out for them in the fires. There are many types of threats.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#115

Post by em500 »

latexr wrote: post #89

> When asked by The Post whether any government had requested a backdoor, Google spokesman Ed Fernandez did not provide a direct answer but suggested none exist: "Google cannot access Android end-to-end encrypted backup data, even with a legal order," he stated. No, that does not suggest none exists, it only says they don’t have access to it. They could have chosen or have been ordered to give the keys to the governm…

Before people immediately think the worst of Google or other corporate representatives, be aware that people working in these companies need to weight their words carefully. From The Verge's article on the issue:

The UK has reportedly served Apple a document called a technical capability notice. It’s a criminal offense to even reveal that the government has made a demand. Similarly, if Apple did cede to the UK’s demands then it apparently would not be allowed to warn users that its encrypted service is no longer fully secure.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#116

Post by elashri »

bilekas wrote: post #109
cmsj wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple still has legal entities in the UK. Pulling out cloud services would be insufficient to prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities.

> prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? To my layman understanding, this reads the same as if China said : "Meta, Tesla, Valve etc has entities in China therefore we get to see all data they store in the EU and the US. The UK has Zero jurisdiction in Ireland for example where a lot of EU data may be stored.

I have lived to the day that we give an example on china not doing something stupid a western democracy does about rights and freedom. Wild times to be alive. I am also surprised that they demand worldwide access and not just UK users data or all the data stored in UK jurisdiction. But this is going too far.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#117

Post by eptcyka »

cpymchn wrote: post #77

What's new here? As mentioned in the article, Salt Typhoon and the recency of this request by the UK. At this point they should know better. My pet theory is anytime the US wants to do something illegal under US law, they simply ask the UK to do it and vice versa. That's why Salt Typhoon isn't and never will be a lesson learned.

It is actually Australia where the US goes to test out far-out legislative ideas before implementing them at home.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#118

Post by scrlk »

maeil wrote: post #102

From the macrumors thread: > So much for personal liberties. I'd like to give Labour the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a holdover from the last government knowing how fast the civil service actually works but given the Tory 3.0 plan they are going with I wouldn't put it passed them. >We didn't vote for this. You very much did vote for this, you voted for Labour under Keir Starmer and he did not particularly…

Have people forgotten the authoritarian tendencies of the 1997–2010 Labour governments? This is nothing new.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#119

Post by layer8 »

bilekas wrote: post #109
cmsj wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple still has legal entities in the UK. Pulling out cloud services would be insufficient to prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities.

> prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? To my layman understanding, this reads the same as if China said : "Meta, Tesla, Valve etc has entities in China therefore we get to see all data they store in the EU and the US. The UK has Zero jurisdiction in Ireland for example where a lot of EU data may be stored.

It would be enforced by fining the UK legal entities (or worse, like charging their legal representatives) if they don't comply. If the UK is serious about this, the only alternative for Apple would eventually be to completely cease operations in the UK.

By the way, this is similar to why for true GDPR compliance, data centers should be operated by EU companies that aren't subsidiaries of US companies, because even if the latter operate data centers located in the EU, they would still be bound to secret orders by the US government.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#120

Post by blibble »

maeil wrote: post #102

From the macrumors thread: > So much for personal liberties. I'd like to give Labour the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a holdover from the last government knowing how fast the civil service actually works but given the Tory 3.0 plan they are going with I wouldn't put it passed them. >We didn't vote for this. You very much did vote for this, you voted for Labour under Keir Starmer and he did not particularly…

quite why Labour deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything authoritarian I don't know

Labour was behind:

    - forced key disclosure (Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000), still in force
    - 72 day detention without charge (Terrorism Act 2006), defeated before it became an Act
    - national identity register and mandatory id cards (Identity Cards Act 2006), ripped up by the next Tory government
    - various attempts at removal of ancient right to trial by jury (partially successful)
they are as bad, if not worse than the tories
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