I didn't know the ecosystem wasn't on 3. It was released May 2021. It is a big change though.
Most of the ecosystem is on Scala 3, I think Spark would be the biggest piece pending to upgrade.
Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
41–50 of 124 posts
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#42Scala used to be my hobby / enthusiast language. Introduced to it through a college course, and used a bit through school. Later, I would use it for Advent of Code, tinkered with a Scala Play webapp, and dream about using it professionally. Rust has almost completely filled that void now. Rust is native, I'm not waiting on the 1.0 release of `scala-native` anymore. The community around Rust seems to be enthusiastic a…
I have been writing Scala and Rust everyday for the last few years.
I actually don’t see the two overlapping all that much. Rust is a terrible backend language compared to Scala/JVM. When you are dealing with real world concurrency i.e. error/thread management Rust’s memory management model becomes unusably complex very quickly. And the entire ecosystem lacks maturity i.e. the majority of libraries I use are not at version 1.
Whereas from Scala you can just use any Java library e.g. Vertx, Spring almost all of which have commercial, enterprise support and continue to be proven time and time again. It almost always just works.
Rust’s strength is in desktop apps e.g. Tauri and low-level programming.
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#43Scala used to be my hobby / enthusiast language. Introduced to it through a college course, and used a bit through school. Later, I would use it for Advent of Code, tinkered with a Scala Play webapp, and dream about using it professionally. Rust has almost completely filled that void now. Rust is native, I'm not waiting on the 1.0 release of `scala-native` anymore. The community around Rust seems to be enthusiastic a…
I have been writing Scala and Rust everyday for the last few years. I actually don’t see the two overlapping all that much. Rust is a terrible backend language compared to Scala/JVM. When you are dealing with real world concurrency i.e. error/thread management Rust’s memory management model becomes unusably complex very quickly. And the entire ecosystem lacks maturity i.e. the majority of libraries I use are not at v…
> When you are dealing with real world concurrency i.e. error/thread management Rust’s memory management model becomes unusably complex very quickly
I've seen this several times, but having built several highly concurrent applications in Rust, I just don't agree. Building a concurrent Rust application the wrong way is certainly complex, but if you know how Rust's strong opinions on how to structure an application work, it's downright pleasant.
Except async. Rust's async story still sucks and should be avoided as much as possible.
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#44Scala used to be my hobby / enthusiast language. Introduced to it through a college course, and used a bit through school. Later, I would use it for Advent of Code, tinkered with a Scala Play webapp, and dream about using it professionally. Rust has almost completely filled that void now. Rust is native, I'm not waiting on the 1.0 release of `scala-native` anymore. The community around Rust seems to be enthusiastic a…
I work in data engineering and Scala fades even in this field.
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#45Scala used to be my hobby / enthusiast language. Introduced to it through a college course, and used a bit through school. Later, I would use it for Advent of Code, tinkered with a Scala Play webapp, and dream about using it professionally. Rust has almost completely filled that void now. Rust is native, I'm not waiting on the 1.0 release of `scala-native` anymore. The community around Rust seems to be enthusiastic a…
> Scala Play webapp
I feel like the biggest misstep that the Scala ecosystem and Typesafe/Lightbend did was that they didn't invest more in Play Framework. 10 or 12 years ago, Play had a lot of energy and momentum, and it's a kind of thing that has broad enterprise/start up appeal. But focus was always more on Akka and what seemed like really niche architecture astronaut stuff like Actors and Actor System Clusters and Event Sourcing etc, rather than getting the basics to be super ergonomic or productive.
If they had keep just making Play Framework better and better and focusing on the practical problems that every web service faces, they could be in a similar great position as Laravel is in today or any of the many Rails/Laravel consultancies.
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#46Scala used to be my hobby / enthusiast language. Introduced to it through a college course, and used a bit through school. Later, I would use it for Advent of Code, tinkered with a Scala Play webapp, and dream about using it professionally. Rust has almost completely filled that void now. Rust is native, I'm not waiting on the 1.0 release of `scala-native` anymore. The community around Rust seems to be enthusiastic a…
I have been writing Scala and Rust everyday for the last few years. I actually don’t see the two overlapping all that much. Rust is a terrible backend language compared to Scala/JVM. When you are dealing with real world concurrency i.e. error/thread management Rust’s memory management model becomes unusably complex very quickly. And the entire ecosystem lacks maturity i.e. the majority of libraries I use are not at v…
> And the entire ecosystem lacks maturity i.e. the majority of libraries I use are not at version 1.
I'm marginally bothered by the reluctance to bite the bullet and accept a 2.0 will happen in the future, but version numbers do not make for mature libraries. There are plenty of foundational libraries written in C keeping Linux desktops running that are permanent 0.x versions.
> Whereas from Scala you can just use any Java library e.g. Vertx, Spring almost all of which have commercial, enterprise support and continue to be proven time and time again.
I find that "wide and storied library ecosystem" can be a double edged sword: an old library can either be battle-tested, or just old (with cruft or poor design or implementation) and you can't always tell which it is ahead of time. This is true for libraries in any language, and the same thing will happen to Rust in 10 years.
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#47I only allow myself to use Scala these days if follow some rules: no sbt (just Maven) and no Scala libraries (just Java ones). I never used fancy stuff like Cats anyways. Curious to hear who actually does, and for what.
This thread is interesting; so many tools and libraries referenced that I am not familiar with at all. I think some of us are writing very different languages.
I've used Scala my entire career at multiple companies, and Typelevel has been the default at all of them. I'm not even entirely sure where Scala ends and Cats begins, so it's hard to identify what's "fancy", let alone justify it. I do like IO, and monad transformers. I think neither of those are native. Flat code tends to be maintainable.
From my perspective, fully baked frameworks and ORMs are what's "fancy" (a readability nightmare). I don't know if it's a cultural thing, but Scala codebases that go hard on FP tend not to introduce these, which I appreciate. Pick your poison I guess.
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#48Scala used to be my hobby / enthusiast language. Introduced to it through a college course, and used a bit through school. Later, I would use it for Advent of Code, tinkered with a Scala Play webapp, and dream about using it professionally. Rust has almost completely filled that void now. Rust is native, I'm not waiting on the 1.0 release of `scala-native` anymore. The community around Rust seems to be enthusiastic a…
I thought I was reading my own story! same here... 10 years of Scala 2.xx till it was Scala 3 that caused my withdrawal, and that infinite waiting for scala-native... killed my interest. Now, and for the foreseeable future, it is Rust.
I had a look at Mojo, love it, but I am no longer interested in OO (used OO for 20+ years and I figured I am no more interested).
EDIT: even John DeGoes (the ZIO guy) left Scala for similar reasons, now I just remembered, and prefers Rust over it... I love what they are doing with their Golem Cloud.
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#49Scala used to be my hobby / enthusiast language. Introduced to it through a college course, and used a bit through school. Later, I would use it for Advent of Code, tinkered with a Scala Play webapp, and dream about using it professionally. Rust has almost completely filled that void now. Rust is native, I'm not waiting on the 1.0 release of `scala-native` anymore. The community around Rust seems to be enthusiastic a…
I work in data engineering and Scala fades even in this field.
What's used instead? Python? (complete outsider, just curious.)
Re: Scala 3 Migration: Report from the field
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you should read this report. They made heavy use of many advanced features of Scala 2. Few codebases look like this (and very, very few need to) yet they were able to do it. Moreover, they didn't need to do it. What makes it similar to the Python 2 -> 3 situation is the lack of urgency to migrate, because nobody suffers for not migrating. That's a good thing.
Most people used advanced features, even if they were hidden behind libraries. Even if you’ve just had a codebase which only used playframework.
The article mentions they used an experimental language feature, which is enabled via a special compilation flag and came with a big warning from the start that it was in fact experimental and could be removed any time. I highly doubt that most people use any libraries that use those.
As a side note, I've personally had the experience of migrating several projects to Scala3 (when it was still called Dotty), and never had any issues with 3rd party dependencies, since Scala 3 is binary-backwards compatible with Scala 2.13