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Rare is the leader who can actually write well

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Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#11

Post by derefr »

coolnewtoy wrote: post #6
Alex3917 wrote: post #4

"If you are trying to decide between a few people to fill a position, always hire the better writer. It doesn't matter if that person is a designer, programmer, marketer, salesperson, or whatever, the writing skills will pay off. Effective, concise writing and editing leads to effective, concise code, design, emails, instant messages, and more. That's because being a good writer is about more than words. Good writers…

As a CS grad student with an undergrad degree in creative writing, I always feel like I have to explain how I got here. I usually tell people I have an affinity for metaphors, and remind them that their desktop, folders and files are all electronic metaphors.

I'm double-majoring in CS and creative writing--I'm trying to synthesize a curriculum that leads directly to being an optimal choice as a game designer (not developer.) People who think I'm trying to be a developer don't get the writing part, and people who think I'm trying to be something like a screenwriter don't get the CS part. It's all very frustrating, but I think it'll work out.

Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#12

Post by makecheck »

I would add to this that writers ideally be able to use "8th grade English", so it is easy for any English speaker to read.

It's a global workforce. Yet too often, I see a colleague send a brain dump of 3 or 4 paragraphs to someone in another country. Imagine yourself having to use a translation dictionary for half of that?

It really helps if you use just common English words, in brief sentences. And yes, this might take extra editing time. Yet, this helps anyone reading it, not just those with English as a second language.

Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#13

Post by diN0bot »

the data doesn't necessarily back up that leaders aren't good writers. maybe recent american politicians, but what about Jefferson, Lincoln and Franklin (not a President, but on the $5 note), not to mention the writers of the federalist papers and constitution. maybe we're talking about a different kind of "write well".

Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#14

Post by dissenter »

makecheck wrote: post #12

I would add to this that writers ideally be able to use "8th grade English", so it is easy for any English speaker to read. It's a global workforce. Yet too often, I see a colleague send a brain dump of 3 or 4 paragraphs to someone in another country. Imagine yourself having to use a translation dictionary for half of that? It really helps if you use just common English words, in brief sentences. And yes, this might…

You're approaching it from the wrong perspective. English is the lingua franca. If your colleague were really nice, he would translate his message into Hindi, but that isn't an effective use of time. Neither is writing in Simple English.

Let the recipient use a dictionary. After a while he won't have to anymore.

Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#15

Post by makecheck »

dissenter wrote: post #14
makecheck wrote: post #12

I would add to this that writers ideally be able to use "8th grade English", so it is easy for any English speaker to read. It's a global workforce. Yet too often, I see a colleague send a brain dump of 3 or 4 paragraphs to someone in another country. Imagine yourself having to use a translation dictionary for half of that? It really helps if you use just common English words, in brief sentences. And yes, this might…

You're approaching it from the wrong perspective. English is the lingua franca. If your colleague were really nice, he would translate his message into Hindi, but that isn't an effective use of time. Neither is writing in Simple English. Let the recipient use a dictionary. After a while he won't have to anymore.

That isn't really fair to the recipient. Why should he or she spend extra time figuring out what you said, and you spend no time at all making it easier to read?

Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#16

Post by unalone »

coolnewtoy wrote: post #6
Alex3917 wrote: post #4

"If you are trying to decide between a few people to fill a position, always hire the better writer. It doesn't matter if that person is a designer, programmer, marketer, salesperson, or whatever, the writing skills will pay off. Effective, concise writing and editing leads to effective, concise code, design, emails, instant messages, and more. That's because being a good writer is about more than words. Good writers…

As a CS grad student with an undergrad degree in creative writing, I always feel like I have to explain how I got here. I usually tell people I have an affinity for metaphors, and remind them that their desktop, folders and files are all electronic metaphors.

That's a great explanation!

I wonder: do a lot of CS people feel connected to writing? I never thought so, though I know music is a common connection. But most people here write fairly well, and you get a lot of eloquent posts. Is that a common trait among hackers, that they write?

Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#17

Post by unalone »

derefr wrote: post #11
coolnewtoy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a CS grad student with an undergrad degree in creative writing, I always feel like I have to explain how I got here. I usually tell people I have an affinity for metaphors, and remind them that their desktop, folders and files are all electronic metaphors.

I'm double-majoring in CS and creative writing--I'm trying to synthesize a curriculum that leads directly to being an optimal choice as a game designer ( not developer .) People who think I'm trying to be a developer don't get the writing part, and people who think I'm trying to be something like a screenwriter don't get the CS part. It's all very frustrating, but I think it'll work out.

What is a game designer, out of curiosity? I mean, I get the basics, but game designers don't do most of the programming, do they? They just need a general overview of how the game is working?

Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#18

Post by unalone »

jodrellblank wrote: post #10

I don't write much in terms of stories, poems, blog articles, essays, etc. But I do write a lot in forum posts, emails and everyday work notes (into the tens of thousands of posts over the years). Yet I've never got much feedback about my writing style. With ten thousand posts of careful practise, I would presumably be pretty good by now. What a wasted opportunity.

I find that forum posts (like on Hacker News) help a lot with writing essays, if for no other reason than it helps you develop your arguments. Ditto blog articles, though every blog is different and most of the "good" blogs are terrible.

Stories are different, though learning to construct an argument helps you plan out stories. Learning the aesthetics of a language isn't something forumming helps with. And poetry is an entirely different entity from either: it's almost all aesthetic.

The problem with feedback is that each thing you do is trying to do something different. If you state yourself clearly online, there's not much more you have to do. And yet look at somebody like why the lucky stiff, who's elevated his writing style to a level above anything I've encountered online. He doesn't have to do that, but he does it anyway.

Re: Rare is the leader who can actually write well

#20

Post by kragen »

jodrellblank wrote: post #9
gruseom wrote: post #7

s/actually//

The only valid use of 'actually' that I can think of is to correct someone in a smug way ('actually: synonymous with 'you idiot''). Any other use seems to be filler. Am I missing some good uses for it? "1 + 1 is 11" " acccctually , it's 2"

I had a coworker who used to use "in reality" in place of "actually", which is even worse. Usually he used it immediately prior to statements that needed quite a bit of justification. It used to drive me nuts. Eventually I realized that when he said, "in reality," he meant, "in my opinion," and from then on we got along much better.
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