DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack • Hacker News Board

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#181

Post by krapp » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:32 PM UTC

littlestymaar wrote: post #152

ty6853 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was assured right here on HN that the data was public to begin with, and downvoted for suggesting it was possible unseen corruption. Hopefully if that is true they find it just matches what has released publicly. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=ty6853&next=42914628...

This whole operation is as related to finding corruption exhibits as the Moscow trials were to finding traitors in the Red Army. It is a (ridiculous) pretext for purging the system from people that the new power deems “uncooperative”.

Yeah, I mean Musk has literally tweeted that DOGE is "dismantling the radical-left shadow government."[0] This is not about efficiency or rooting out corruption, it's about persecuting political enemies and purging wrongthink.

Which was something people here screamed bloody murder about when they accused Biden of doing it, just by asking Twitter to moderate content, but I guess this is all fine now.

[0]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886840365329608708

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#182

Post by plagiarist » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:32 PM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #160

kemayo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could†, but they haven't. †: They actually couldn't, without stripping the filibuster from the Senate.

Not familiar with "filibuster". Does it mean that Democrats could effectively prevent a potential "DOGE is legal" bill from passing by endlessly debating it?

Oh, that would be nice for a change. My understanding is they no longer debate it, they just send an email to the Senate saying "I filibuster" and the bill is tabled.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#183

Post by kemayo » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:33 PM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #160

kemayo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could†, but they haven't. †: They actually couldn't, without stripping the filibuster from the Senate.

Not familiar with "filibuster". Does it mean that Democrats could effectively prevent a potential "DOGE is legal" bill from passing by endlessly debating it?

Originally, yes. These days a "talking filibuster" like that is almost never used, apart from occasionally when someone wants to be dramatic about it.

There's a thing called a vote for cloture, meaning a vote you take about whether to stop debate and vote on the issue. In the US Senate, a cloture vote requires 60 votes (out of 100) to pass. So there's a "procedural filibuster", whereby one side will announce that they're not going to vote for cloture, but the other side won't force them to actually keep talking so the chamber can move on and do other things.

This used to be quite uncommon, and things would regularly become law with a bare 50%+1 majority, but nowadays -- basically since ~2008 -- there's a de-facto "nothing that can't get 60% support in the Senate can become law" rule in effect. With a specific carve-out for a few things that're not allowed to be filibustered, mostly around passing a budget, that are just barely keeping the government functioning.

Personally, I intensely dislike this, and feel like the shift to default-filibuster-everything is a major cause of the growing dissatisfaction with the system that ultimately gave us Trump.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#184

Post by slashdev » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:33 PM UTC

jacobr1 wrote: post #135

proggy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero power? Explain that to USAID, Treasury, OPM, and GSA. Actors working on behalf of digital services (i.e. DOGE) are commandeering IT systems and sending out ultimatums to the workforce about complying with their orders at risk of being punished with administrative leave for insubordination. It is a highly unlawful operation that goes far beyond the consult and advise mission you’re alluding to.

My understanding is that most the actions you listed above were performed as standard Executive Orders or OMB Memos. Each one may or may not be illegal, but are being done through a standard channel despite the marketing around DOGE. The questionable activity sees to be things like the physical and IT system access being given to DOGE employees. Is anyone aware of direct action by DOGE employees that constitutes orde…

This is my understanding as well, but I'm interested to know about exceptions to this

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#185

Post by darth_avocado » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:34 PM UTC

ty6853 wrote: post #146

darth_avocado wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That’s how branches of government are set up. Judicial and legislative branches are supposed to keep the executive branch in check. Judicial branch is right now working to keep things in check but it will take time, resources and money to address every small thing. Opening the floodgates is a good strategy to overwhelm this branch. Which is where the legislative branch comes in. If they see the executive branch…

Judicial branch has basically no enforcement. They can judge all they like, if the other branches or even states tell them to shove it up their ass, what can they do? Not long ago Hawaii told the Supreme Court 'spirit of aloha' and the broken paddle trumps _Bruen_. And nothing stops them, the Supreme court has a few armed marshalls and little else.

Yes that does happen and ideally the executive branch is responsible for enforcement, which creates an opportunity for the President to say no. But that undermines the courts and affects the faith people have in the Judicial system. The ramifications of that trust eroding are far and wide, and the economy would take a massive hit. People will then vote differently in 2 years and hope the legislative branch does its job.

One thing to also consider is that sometimes, the execution of the court orders will rely on local governments and locally elected officials in local enforcement bodies (like the Sheriff’s Office or the local PD). In that case, enforcement will vary across the country.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#186

Post by dodobirdlord » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:36 PM UTC

zosima wrote: post #117

dodobirdlord wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was consolidated into the Department of State as part of the Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998 as an agency with an administrator and responsibility for administrating the distribution of aid under certain preexisting laws. So it is straightforwardly outside of the authority of the president to disband the agency, as Congress has provided that it shall exist. And it is likewise outside of the au…

I didn't say the president could disband it. I said the president could transform it.

The comment you replied to was discussing the president’s authority to shut down agencies. (And lack thereof.)

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#187

Post by affinepplan » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:36 PM UTC

slashdev wrote: post #178

affinepplan wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please don't spread misinformation. it clearly has power, and has been demonstrably exercising that power. > to shine a light into dark places of government spending yes, I'm aware that this is the Official Position of the State. but quite obviously that is not what it is actually doing

What power exactly does it have? Be specific.

Full access to US Treasury payment infrastructure and private data on millions of US citizens, for two.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#188

Post by intended » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:39 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #111

intended wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you assume that USAID was evil from the oustset, its easy to conclude that everything its tendrils touched was also tainted. Kinda like evil. But, the sad part is, that this also means its an idea which is impossible to challenge, because you cant trust anyone who counters it.

> If you assume that USAID was evil from the oustset, I'm not "assuming", I know that for a fact. > because you cant trust anyone who counters it. Do you happen to live in a part of the Globe that has been under direct USAID (and NED) influence? Something tells me you don't, I do (I live in Eastern Europe), so allow me not to receive lessons from people who know nothing, absolutely nothing, about this type of organis…

I do! It seems we benefited significantly from them. Who knew.

Also, where I'm from was historically on America's shit list. Still benefited from it.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#189

Post by psytrancefan » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:40 PM UTC

stanleykm wrote: post #54

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it actually illegal if it's the pet project of the president, who has been given absolute power by the rest of the government?

The president isn’t a king.

This is all the Curtis Yarvin influence. There is that period in US history that the president was acting more like a king, Taft to FDR. They were doing much more executive orders then that we have been use to the past 80 years.

It all is quite unsettling. Then the fact it is Trump doing this is just something else all together too.

I am a bit worried how the country is going to deal with this level of change. We aren't even 3 weeks in.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#190

Post by andy_ppp » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 10:40 PM UTC

I can see the Founders of the US now, one of the things they did when setting up the government was organise it so a South African billionaire should be able to take over and reorganise it with zero accountability.