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DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

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Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#121

Post by ty6853 »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #113
code_runner wrote: post #41

DOGE is obviously a completely illegal operation, and I really do hope it will be get reined in before they can cause an issue so big that _even trump's croniest cronies_ have to admit what is going on. For someone who claims to love freedom of speech, Elon is pretty quick to determine who can say what, and how much access to _his_ data people have.

> DOGE is obviously a completely illegal operation What laws does it break? I like to watch those "Auditors" on Youtube who film in public places. Every cop assures them that filming a police officer / police station / inside a public library is illegal. About 25% of the time they detain them, and about 10% of the time they arrest them. When they ask what law they've broken, they never get a straight answer.

I think the one they're going for is that being a senior officer with material authority requires confirmation per the appointments clause, constitutional law instead of a federal statute.

Whether musk is operating as such seems dubious but possible.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#122

Post by jfengel »

darth_avocado wrote: post #108
jklinger410 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While lawyers are busy trying to stop big things, many small but important items will slip through the cracks and will take decades to undo. So the government is designed in such a way that someone can do illegal things without those currently running the systems simply saying "no?" They have the power to do the things, and then we have to wait for it to be litigated. Watching the cases against Trump drop like flie…

Yes. That’s how branches of government are set up. Judicial and legislative branches are supposed to keep the executive branch in check. Judicial branch is right now working to keep things in check but it will take time, resources and money to address every small thing. Opening the floodgates is a good strategy to overwhelm this branch. Which is where the legislative branch comes in. If they see the executive branch…

One side of the aisle is powerless. They can make speeches, but all legislative progress requires the approval of the Speaker of the House. Who will refer any legislation to a committee, which is also controlled by a committee chair of the same party.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#123

Post by kemayo »

olalonde wrote: post #115
code_runner wrote: post #41

DOGE is obviously a completely illegal operation, and I really do hope it will be get reined in before they can cause an issue so big that _even trump's croniest cronies_ have to admit what is going on. For someone who claims to love freedom of speech, Elon is pretty quick to determine who can say what, and how much access to _his_ data people have.

Stupid question but don't the Republicans control all branches of government? Couldn't they just declare whatever DOGE is doing legal (if it's indeed illegal)?

They could†, but they haven't.

†: They actually couldn't, without stripping the filibuster from the Senate.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#124

Post by floatrock »

kemayo wrote: post #114
paganel wrote: post #90

> used by journalists and lawyers to hold government accountable. The journalists from Politico have just been ousted by DOGE has having had received $8 million in annual funding from USAID (another Government-run institution that has been ousted by the same DOGE), so I can understand how come Musk would want to keep DOGE's dealing away from journalists that might see this agency as very antithetic to their (the jour…

USAID gave Politico $24k, not $8M. The entire US govt did pay Politico about $8.2M, presumably in the form of buying their subscription products. Politico really does do deep-dive analysis behind a paywall, and I can see why government people might want access. (I have no idea how justified this is, honestly, but I wouldn't immediately dismiss it.) This seems like a fair enough summary: https://www.axios.com/2025/02/…

Seriously. Headline here really is "Government is buying data from a data provider." Now do Starlink. Or Palantir.

I've yet to hear why this is a corrupt or inappropriate purchase. I might change my mind if I hear evidence on why this was an inappropriate contract, but right now this reeks of dictator-grade fear-targeting of political opponents.

This is why a government is supposed to have an independent judiciary. Or inspector generals who haven't been purged.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#126

Post by px1999 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #39
byroot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not, but there would definitely be some sort of resistance, strikes, refusal to comply, etc. In France public service employees have a very high level of protection (they're very hard to fire), and are legally allowed to disobey "obviously illegal" orders, I suppose this case would qualify? All of this was implemented immediately after WW2 as a way to prevent a potential authoritarian ruler from using public…

> In France public service employees have a very high level of protection (they're very hard to fire), and are legally allowed to disobey "obviously illegal" orders This would seem to imply that a French public servant who obeys an "obviously illegal" order is both knowingly (it's obvious) and willfully (there's no requirement to obey) breaking the law. What are the penalties for that?

devoir de désobéissance is _duty_ of disobedience.

If they choose to follow orders they know are illegal they can be personally liable.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#127

Post by magicalist »

baq wrote: post #74
miltonlost wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol "taxation is just like the mafia". 12 year olds and libertarians are so alike

If you trace how first governments formed… it’s literally true. When the mafia gets everyone in its ranks it becomes the defacto ruling body. In present times, you can look at cartels providing government services of better quality than the government itself in some parts of the world.

> If you trace how first governments formed… it’s literally true.

As far as we know the first governments predated written history, so I'm not sure how you'd ever be able to demonstrate this.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#128

Post by hx8 »

viraptor wrote: post #29

Practically, this probably doesn't make a difference. FOIA relies on at least one person in the department to not be antagonistic towards the process. Otherwise they can just make up excuses. That's the standard experience for people sending requests. I don't think anyone from the new DOGE would actually be helpful in responses anyway.

If the data is on Slack servers, then Slack may be more than willing comply with FOIA.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#129

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

baq wrote: post #74
miltonlost wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol "taxation is just like the mafia". 12 year olds and libertarians are so alike

If you trace how first governments formed… it’s literally true. When the mafia gets everyone in its ranks it becomes the defacto ruling body. In present times, you can look at cartels providing government services of better quality than the government itself in some parts of the world.

Modern 'democratic' govts are actually a sophisticated form of the what is typically considered the mafia. Killing their rivals has been replaced with 'defeating' their rivals in an election. So now they need to worry less if their rivals will kill them.

Then they also they send you a nice itemized printed tax bill versus the the mafia which would send their henchmen to knock at your door for the protection money. All in all in the west humanity has progressed! /s

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#130

Post by [deleted] »

olalonde wrote: post #115
code_runner wrote: post #41

DOGE is obviously a completely illegal operation, and I really do hope it will be get reined in before they can cause an issue so big that _even trump's croniest cronies_ have to admit what is going on. For someone who claims to love freedom of speech, Elon is pretty quick to determine who can say what, and how much access to _his_ data people have.

Stupid question but don't the Republicans control all branches of government? Couldn't they just declare whatever DOGE is doing legal (if it's indeed illegal)?

[deleted]
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