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Ingesting PDFs and why Gemini 2.0 changes everything

sergey.fyi

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Re: Ingesting PDFs and why Gemini 2.0 changes everything

#31
> Why Gemini 2.0 Changes Everything

Clickbait. It doesn't change "everything". It makes ingestion for RAG much less expensive (and therefore feasible in a lot more scenarios), at the expense of ~7% reduction in accuracy. Accuracy is already rather poor even before this, however, with the top alternative clocking in at 0.9. Gemini 2.0 is 0.84, although the author seems to suggest that the failure modes are mostly around formatting rather than e.g. mis-recognition or hallucinations.

TL;DR: is this exciting? If you do RAG, yes. Does it "change everything" nope. There's still a very long way to go. Protip for model designers: accuracy is always in greater demand than performance. A slow model that solves the problem is invariably better than a fast one that fucks everything up.

Re: Ingesting PDFs and why Gemini 2.0 changes everything

#33

I work in fintech and we replaced an OCR vendor with Gemini at work for ingesting some PDFs. After trial and error with different models Gemini won because it was so darn easy to use and it worked with minimal effort. I think one shouldn't underestimate that multi-modal, large context window model in terms of ease-of-use. Ironically this vendor is the best known and most successful vendor for OCR'ing this specific ty…

This is a big aha moment for me.

If Gemini can do semantic chunking at the same time as extraction, all for so cheap and with nearly perfect accuracy, and without brittle prompting incantation magic, this is huge.

Re: Ingesting PDFs and why Gemini 2.0 changes everything

#34
post #6

Been toying with the flash model. Not the top model, but think it'll see plenty use due to the details. Wins on things other than top of benchmark logs * Generous free tier * Huge context window * Lite version feels basically instant However * Lite model seems more prone to repeating itself / looping * Very confusing naming e.g. {model}-latest worked for 1.5 but now its {model}-001? The lite has a date appended, the…

> * Huge context window But how well does it actually handle that context window? E.g. a lot of models support 200K context, but the LLM can only really work with ~80K or so of it before it starts to get confused.

It works okay out to roughly 20-40k tokens. Once the window gets larger than that, it degrades significantly. You can needle in the haystack out to that distance, but asking it for multiple things from the document leads to hallucinations for me.

Ironic, but GPT4o works better for me at longer contexts <128k than Gemini 2.0 flash. And out to 1m is just hopeless, even though you can do it.

Re: Ingesting PDFs and why Gemini 2.0 changes everything

#35
Shameless plug: I'm working on a startup in this space.

But the bounding box problem hits close to home. We've found Unstructured's API gives pretty accurate box coordinates, and with some tweaks you can make them even better. The tricky part is implementing those tweaks without burning a hole in your wallet.

Re: Ingesting PDFs and why Gemini 2.0 changes everything

#36
post #2

90% accuracy +/- 10%? What could that be useful for, that’s awfully low.

Author here — measuring accuracy in table parsing is surprisingly challenging. Subtle, almost imperceptible differences in how a table is parsed may not affect the reader's understanding but can significantly impact benchmark performance. For all practical purposes, I'd say it's near perfect (also keep in mind the benchmark is on very challenging tables).

Re: Ingesting PDFs and why Gemini 2.0 changes everything

#37

I work in fintech and we replaced an OCR vendor with Gemini at work for ingesting some PDFs. After trial and error with different models Gemini won because it was so darn easy to use and it worked with minimal effort. I think one shouldn't underestimate that multi-modal, large context window model in terms of ease-of-use. Ironically this vendor is the best known and most successful vendor for OCR'ing this specific ty…

I've been fighting trying to chunk SEC filings properly, specifically surrounding the strange and inconsistent tabular formats present in company filings.

This is giving me hope that it's possible.

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