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Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

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Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#191
post #139
post #71

I remember how "master" and "slave" were banned a few years back in information technology context and people cheered that ban. And surprise surprise, the same mechanism of arbitrary bans can be turned 180 degrees. And it appears that if the only criteria is a superficial offense at the established word unrelated to the imaginary offense, then many different people can use that same mechanism to ban or attack whateve…

Absolutely correct. We’re still not allowed to use “whitelist” and “blacklist” because it’s somehow racism. We have linters which bar us from checking in code with these words and a bot which scolds us publicly in chats. Now the same people who applauded that policing of speech suddenly are offended when their explicit political speech is being removed. It’s just simply hypocrisy.

You're really offended by these linters huh.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#192
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we want more female representation in STEM - focus on education. You also have to introduce rules for hiring – unless you want your interventions to have an 80-year delay on them. (Or we could make unqualified 18-year-olds responsible for hiring decisions, I suppose.) If you're training children up for careers they're going to be kept out of, you're doing everyone a disservice.

Removing reasonable discriminating items from hiring is good idea, like mandating no photos for example. But we can't remove all of it and people will still be discriminated, even just by name and surname. Then we decide to force the issue and add diversity quotas, but those are both neither enough nor are truly enforced. Then we start creating DEI departments, thought police and... well. It doesn't work very well. A…

I also think quotas are a poor solution. Pretty much all of the surface-level DEI stuff in the US is – or, I suppose, was – absurd. (Mandatory corporate training where a voice reads out a list of slurs… What problem is that meant to solve?)

However, my experience of DEI specialists is overwhelmingly positive, even those in the US. Maybe I've got lucky, and have only interacted with competent ones: who knows? But if they say a system involving quotas is the best solution currently-feasible – which iirc I have been told – then that won't convince me that quotas are good, but it will convince me that the other options are worse.

> The problem with quotas is that we can't implement them where they are really needed - in the higher castes of social hierarchy.

This isn't a problem with quotas. It being a problem presupposes that quotas work, surely?

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#193

Truthfully, the words are not "forbidden". Using them in a grant application might decrease the chances of receiving a grant. Nothing stops anyone from using them.

Just like getting demonetized on YouTube, then. Maybe we'll see grant proposals to study "dis@bility progression in Multiple Sclerosis", "light p0larization" and "weights and b!ases"

"A systematic review of studies on the possible relationship between high lead levels in soil, and rates of unaliving."

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#194
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Git isn’t GitHub. GitHub changed the default for GitHub , didn’t touch existing projects and made it optional for projects to switch.

I didn't say they did anything to mainline git's source code. Hell, I didn't even say they accomplished their goal. I just criticized the goal, not just for github but for everyone else doing the same thing. And the goal is about git repos . Lots of those are on github, and lots of those are influenced by the things github did. TL;DR: Lots of people removed "master" from git repos.

> Lots of people removed "master" from git repos.

So because a lot of people chose to no longer use "master" in their git repos, it justifies an authoritarian rollback of science and health? No one cares what their git branches are called. Get that stupid chip off your shoulder and smell the fire. The country is burning.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voluntarily choosing not to say something is preference, not self-censorship. For example, some people choose not to swear because they don't like swears. That is just a preference, self-censorship is when you want to swear but don't because of external pressure. Nobody was forced to stop using master/slave, some companies just chose not to because that was their preference. They didn't want to use the word slave any…

> GitHub Let's not mix up issues though. Removing 'master' in git has much less justification than removing master/slave terminology.

The justification is irrelevant. You can think it's as dumb as you want to, it still isn't censorship if nobody is being forced to do anything.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#196
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely correct. We’re still not allowed to use “whitelist” and “blacklist” because it’s somehow racism. We have linters which bar us from checking in code with these words and a bot which scolds us publicly in chats. Now the same people who applauded that policing of speech suddenly are offended when their explicit political speech is being removed. It’s just simply hypocrisy.

You're really offended by these linters huh.

I resent others trying to police my language, especially when the language is not offensive.

People who do this obviously get joy out of bossing other people around and pretending they are being virtuous.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say they did anything to mainline git's source code. Hell, I didn't even say they accomplished their goal. I just criticized the goal, not just for github but for everyone else doing the same thing. And the goal is about git repos . Lots of those are on github, and lots of those are influenced by the things github did. TL;DR: Lots of people removed "master" from git repos.

> Lots of people removed "master" from git repos. So because a lot of people chose to no longer use "master" in their git repos, it justifies an authoritarian rollback of science and health? No one cares what their git branches are called. Get that stupid chip off your shoulder and smell the fire. The country is burning.

What the hell are you talking about? I never made any comparison between those.

(I sure hope you're not just complaining that I'm wasting words on it while more important things are happening in the world, because that's pure hypocrisy and applies to 99-100% of comments on this site. "Never do anything unimportant" is a terrible motto. So is "never complain about anything minor".)

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GitHub Let's not mix up issues though. Removing 'master' in git has much less justification than removing master/slave terminology.

The justification is irrelevant. You can think it's as dumb as you want to, it still isn't censorship if nobody is being forced to do anything.

Are you pretending that the previous administrations did not lean on tech companies to directly censor speech - or do you really not know?

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#199
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did (and encouraged) a lot of "removing". Which is different from saying they "removed", because "removed" sounds like 100% removal. They didn't 100% remove, but that's not my argument, only a strawman of it. So will you meet me at what I actually meant, or are you going to insist on your own wording that doesn't actually rebut me?

Git isn’t GitHub. GitHub changed the default for GitHub , didn’t touch existing projects and made it optional for projects to switch.

Yes, I think that it is good that they did not touch existing projects. (Much of the complaints (including my own complaints) when it was announced were due to ignorance of the working of git and of GitHub; once I learned how it is working then I do not have complaints about it.)

Even for new projects, if you create a empty repository on GitHub and then send a repository from your own computer, it will work with whatever branch name you give it, at least in my experience (I had sent repositories with the only branch named "trunk" and it seems to cause no problems at all as far as I can tell).

Neither git nor GitHub software cares what the branches are called as far as I know; I think they just changed the default settings if you are creating a repository using GitHub, but you are not required to use them.

And, actually, I read the documentation and you can even make per-user settings on GitHub, and you can change the default branch name for git itself too (and, like in GitHub, this setting can also be changed in git).

They also added the function to rename branches (you can rename any branch, not only the default branch), and they provide documentation about how this is working, so this is a side benefit of their work on this, in case it is sometimes useful to rename branches (although I think probably it is usually better not to rename existing branches, maybe sometimes it might be useful).

Furthermore, "main" is shorter than "master", and starts with the same two letters; but in my opinion, these are minor benefits (although they are still beneficial anyways).

However, even though I think this is good, this does not imply that all software that used "master" and changed it, were doing good. In many cases they weren't good, but git (and GitHub) isn't one of them that isn't good. The reasons why it is good or not good have to do with the existing working of the software and of working of names, and how the changes are being handled, and is not because of racism and stuff like that.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#200
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really offended by these linters huh.

I resent others trying to police my language, especially when the language is not offensive. People who do this obviously get joy out of bossing other people around and pretending they are being virtuous.

It's a strange hill to die on brother.

But you do you.

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