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Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

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Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#31

Post by mrweasel »

mkopec wrote: post #12
mrweasel wrote: post #2

Does TPM support/requirements actually have any meaningful impact on a home user? I could understand being a requirement for Windows 11 Pro (which I believe has Bitlocker, but Home does not). I don't see why it would be required for Home, maybe some features just wouldn't be available, but are those features that people actually care about?

> Does TPM support/requirements actually have any meaningful impact on a home user? Disk encryption, Windows Hello and PIN bruteforce prevention. I have no love Microsoft and avoid using Windows whenever I can, but I think making those features accessible to more people is a good thing.

I was under the impression that Bitlocker wasn't available on Windows Home?

If you have an older computer, without TPM 1.2/2.0, then you already don't things like Windows Hello, but you might have secure boot and some brute force prevention, so you wouldn't be worse of as a home user if Microsoft allowed you to run Windows 11.

For new computers I can completely understand that Microsoft would demand that vendors ship systems with TPM 2.0. For upgrades I just struggle to see any really compelling reason, it's not like Apple where Microsoft is trying to also sell hardware, that's mostly on the OEMs.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#33

Post by Mindwipe »

ch_123 wrote: post #18

What is Microsoft hoping to accomplish here? Given the rate of adoption of Windows 11, it seems unlikely that a majority of Windows 10 users will replace their hardware between now and October. It also seems to me that the scenario where a majority of PC users are running an unsupported Windows release is likely to create MS more problems than is offset by potential revenue from a hardware refresh cycle. Is there an…

It's pretty obviously two middle managers fighting each other, and senior management is too distracted by AI to worry about core products being on fire.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#34

Post by Mindwipe »

teeray wrote: post #24

I wonder if there’s any room for a manufacturer that would make an untrusted TPU. Like, one that quacks like a TPU, but has will sing like a bird if you ask for its keys. Violates all of the security guarantees? Yep, you bet. But it does provide some insurance against an industry that might want to use TPUs against us (e.g. DRM).

As has been pointed out here before, this is all TPUs. They are not used by DRM vendors because they are quite bad at stopping people with physical access getting the keys.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#35

Post by xmodem »

ch_123 wrote: post #18

What is Microsoft hoping to accomplish here? Given the rate of adoption of Windows 11, it seems unlikely that a majority of Windows 10 users will replace their hardware between now and October. It also seems to me that the scenario where a majority of PC users are running an unsupported Windows release is likely to create MS more problems than is offset by potential revenue from a hardware refresh cycle. Is there an…

I don't think there's anything going on here other than general corporate ham-fisted-ness.

* Microsoft believes the improvements in windows 11 provide genuine benefit to their users.

* Microsoft doesn't want to maintain their older OS forever.

What we are seeing play out however is that the consumer / small business market either does not understand or does not care about those benefits. I don't see any viable end-state for this other than Microsoft relaxing the requirements for Windows 11 or extending the end-of-support date for Windows 10. Based on this action my money is on the latter.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#36

Post by saratogacx »

Mindwipe wrote: post #33
ch_123 wrote: post #18

What is Microsoft hoping to accomplish here? Given the rate of adoption of Windows 11, it seems unlikely that a majority of Windows 10 users will replace their hardware between now and October. It also seems to me that the scenario where a majority of PC users are running an unsupported Windows release is likely to create MS more problems than is offset by potential revenue from a hardware refresh cycle. Is there an…

It's pretty obviously two middle managers fighting each other, and senior management is too distracted by AI to worry about core products being on fire.

Maybe if the renamed the bypass Microsoft Windows 11 Installer Co-Pilot for Legacy Systems it would get their attention.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#37

Post by beretguy »

bluescrn wrote: post #17
gruez wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples of DRM that uses TPM? What does TPM provide that stuff like SGX (which is already used in DRM) doesn't provide?

Given trends of everything going subscription-only, is it unreasonable to suspect that the future of Windows could be subscription-only and a lot harder to pirate than previously?

I hope windows will become subscription only so that people finally stop using it.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#38

Post by tassadarforaiur »

queuebert wrote: post #27
Daunk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently found out that a friend of mine installed Linux on his own, completely removing his Windows install. And he has yet to "fiddle with the terminal", but still enjoys gaming on Steam and goes on with his daily routine.

Linux is in desperate need of a PR campaign. The popular distros are just as functional out of the box as Windows, but no one knows it.

Valve expanding steamos compatibility might be the closest we're getting.Hopefully their flavour is viable for a variety of computers by windows 10 sunset date.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#39

Post by bArray »

_7acn wrote: post #30

If I have TPM disabled in the BIOS, is there any point in not enabling it and using a bypass to install Windows 11? I’m wondering if there’s any scenario where keeping TPM disabled might seem like a good idea?

Just to name a few...

Operational reasons:

* You often replace hardware and move disks, etc, around

* The TPM is not compatible with hardware that you have: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Trusted_Platform_Module

* You have a TPM that is too old: https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000132583/dell-syst...

* Your TPM is damaged

Security reasons:

* For some reason the TPM is actually seriously compromised itself (i.e. RCE or firmware backdoors):

- https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1akxbfn/youtuber_...

- https://www.beyondidentity.com/resource/cybersecurity-mythbu...

- https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-tpm-20-fl...

* You have an alternative security model, i.e. PTT: https://uk.crucial.com/support/articles-faq-ssd/alternatives...

* As others have pointed out, what if you're locked into using Windows, Windows requires TPM, and TPM implements something you don't like, for example DRM or it snoops on you. Maybe you have to let it scan your drives, maybe your TPM doesn't like your politics.

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