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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#81
post #31

I don’t feel like the comparisons to Hitler are useful, at least when talking about the current US administration. There are lots more recent examples — Russia in the early 2000s under Putin, Hungary under Orban, South Africa under Apartheid — where democratic norms were gradually eroded, and the international community just sort of sighed and said "oh well, the people have spoken".

Berlusconi is the architect of the modern oligarchy. Control the media, control the public opinion and narrative. I think that what is happening in America is something new though. The dismantling of the US government is weird on it's own, but the step down from US soft power is what really makes no sense. The previous 80ish years of US world dominance was build on a combination of military might and soft power. Europe was rather ruined after WW2, the reason it's as advanced as it is today, and the reason we are/were such close allies with the USA is because of programs like the Marshall plan. Which was essentially the USA giving Europeans the money to buy American products. Stuff like access to US produced tractors revolutionised European farming as an example. On the US side this meant that the USA investment into Europe made it possible for the American wartime industry to restructure itself. So that instead of producing tanks, factories could produce farm equipment and so on. Total win-win.

Military power is necessary, but political influence is bought with soft power and diplomacy. The reason USA has military bases over most of the world. Places which allows America to have places to "store" all that military might outside the USA is because it has allies. The Russian loss of their Syrian bases is a good example or what happens when you lose that soft power. That same soft power is also the reason American brands can sell their stuff globally. Basically the entire American entertainment industry and all the foreign aid programs are giant advertising ventures, selling the American lifestyle. When that soft power is gone, America will still be capable of getting it's way in many cases through threats. People don't respond well to that though. With USA rivals more than happy to step in, you shouldn't be surprised to see Coca Cola replaced by some Chinese cola brand sometime down the road. This is obviously a semi ridiculous example, but I think it's a good illustration if what could happen. That same thing will affect US tech dominance as well. Here in Denmark companies are now actively looking for exit strategies from the American cloud because of the increased risk. I don't think anyone seriously expects something to happen, but at the same time, there is nothing companies hate more than risk. The reason Google Cloud never made it in Europe is because it has more risk than Azure and AWS, and with European alternatives having caught up... Well...

What is perhaps even worse is that the only reason the USA can function with its current deficit is because of the Dollar. If BRICS succeeds in moving half of the worlds population away from the Dollar, the American "empire" will fall considering it's the only "empire" in the history of mankind which has been capable of maintaining it's world dominance while also increasing its deficit.

Hitler and Nazi Germany might be the example everyone knows, and Musk performing his "gesture" doesn't exactly help matters. There doesn't seem to be a real long term plan behind what the aristocracy in the US is doing right now though. At least not one which will keep them safe from each ohter or society as a whole. Berlusconi and his buddies never went to prison after all, no one fell out of a window and so on.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#82

"The Germans" is an absolutely jaw dropping read, a series of interviews with average German citizens and low-level nazi party members, conducted a decade or so after the war, by an American Jewish journalist. It shows, in first hand accounts, the banality of evil and how easily it can prevail if people do nothing. It is an account of modern tyranny and everyday collaboration. The parallels in the feeling of what's h…

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#83
post #78
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are protests planned for today (Wednesday) across the US

Honestly, what would these protests do? Serious question. Let say you manage to achieve the unthinkable and bring a huge amount of people on the street, heck let say you are so successful that you also get a full on national strike going, what then? Do you think it would affect those in charge right now? He would not care. He is already ruining the US economy and alliances. Why would he care if some people he does no…

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#84
post #76

President is unilaterally shutting down federal agencies. If this goes on there really isn't a constitution anymore, not in practice anyway.

The President has unitary power over the executive, within the bounds set by congress.

trump really doesn't care about the bounds set by congress or anyone else

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#85
post #78
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are protests planned for today (Wednesday) across the US

Honestly, what would these protests do? Serious question. Let say you manage to achieve the unthinkable and bring a huge amount of people on the street, heck let say you are so successful that you also get a full on national strike going, what then? Do you think it would affect those in charge right now? He would not care. He is already ruining the US economy and alliances. Why would he care if some people he does no…

is your argument that protests do nothing, therefore people should stay home?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#87
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being gaslit. Democrats did not subvert the checks and balances of our system - they faced opposition in all their initiatives in the judiciary, house, and senate. What Musk is doing now amongst a silent government is unprecedented. His youth group is marching into federal offices walking past security and taking everything because people are afraid. They’re afraid of being fired. They’re afraid of reprisals.…

Your comment comes off as alarmist, but then I realized the content of the article, and think that you may be right. I still stand by my point that most of our politicians have done this to us, on all sides of the political spectrum. And that we would be better off empathizing with our neighbors rather than any politician. But the scale of the jump from previous actions to this one is enormous and shouldn’t be dismis…

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#89
post #88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

trump really doesn't care about the bounds set by congress or anyone else

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It’s not moral panic, it’s because Trump is reducing legitimacy and stability of the government. Killing foreign civilians is normal, locking everyone out of a government job with zero notice is not.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#90

"The Germans" is an absolutely jaw dropping read, a series of interviews with average German citizens and low-level nazi party members, conducted a decade or so after the war, by an American Jewish journalist. It shows, in first hand accounts, the banality of evil and how easily it can prevail if people do nothing. It is an account of modern tyranny and everyday collaboration. The parallels in the feeling of what's h…

sure, making the government smaller is basically the same as putting the government in control of everything.
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