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Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

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Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#101
post #36

The WireGuard project is also in the same situation, due to Equinix Metal shutting down. If anybody would like to host us, please reach out to team at wireguard dot com. Thanks!

Hi Jason,

Thank you for wireguard - it's been a hugely impactful piece of software.

Do you think it would be helpful to outline what hardware resources you would need to successfully migrate the project and all the CI/CD computations to a new home? This would help people determine if they can help with hosting.

Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#102
post #3

Per the ongoing Freedesktop discussion, AWS offered to host but Freedesktop is leaning towards self-hosting on Hetzner so they can control their own destiny and sponsors can contribute cash towards the bill instead of donating hardware. > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/freedesktop/freedesktop/-/iss...

I saw their original announcement and they said that their infra (3 AMD EPYC from generations ago, 3 Intel servers from 2 generations ago, 2 80-core ARM servers) would cost $24k/month at Equinix prices. I checked Hetzner's equivalent offerings, it would be ~$1.5k/month for newer AMD servers. It would probably be even less if they went with older servers listed at their auction. And it probably would be even less if t…

They did the calculations for Hetzner themselves and came to $4258.33/mo.

Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm puzzled about why you'd suggest such an obviously silly thing. Purchased, fully redundant storage is MUCH cheaper than anything in the cloud when talking about any time frame of a year or more. Obviously you can "rent" storage for a month for less than the cost of purchasing it, but only idiot startup CTOs try to argue a comparison like that. Two sets of storage are still cheaper, and we all have rsync.

> fully redundant storage Does it automatically repair itself when it fails? Are you sure you're making a proper comparison? > Two sets of storage are still cheaper, and we all have rsync. Yes, you can in fact solve 90% of the problem with 10% of the effort, what's your plan for the rest of the problem? Just call in sick?

I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make here, but you're a bit off on a tangent.

Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're handwaving. Anything can increase cost and complexity. Using Amazon S3 increases cost and complexity. Set up two locations. Set up rsync. It's still cheaper than cloud storage by far, and that's even after paying yourself handsomely for the script that runs rsync.

> You're handwaving. I do not see any concrete data from you either. This is a forum. Typically we'd just call this a "conversation." > Anything can increase cost and complexity. Using Amazon S3 increases cost and complexity. Yes, and you get something in return for that cost and complexity, so do you care to map out the differences or are you just going to stick to your simple disagreement? > Set up two locations. S…

Simple disagreements suffice. I don't have to make an argument for something just because you bring it up. I'm just pointing out that you bringing it up (hmmm - without backing it up!) doesn't make it a valid point.

You seem to have a bone to pick. I said owned storage is cheaper, and you made up something about it not being redundant. You're not making a salient point as much as you're trying to handwave and dismiss owned hardware as complex, expensive, not worth the "value" one might get from S3, whatever.

If you REALLY think that storage can't be cheaper than "cloud" unless it's not redundant, then show us numbers. Otherwise, you're just making shit up.

You mention all your other things as if you're saying, "Gotcha!" You still have to monitor Amazon. You still have to manage backups. You still have to monitor resource utilization. You're not being clever by trying to imagine that other admins are as bad as you are because all those things seem hard. Good admins do those things no matter where their stuff is running.

Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#106
post #3

Per the ongoing Freedesktop discussion, AWS offered to host but Freedesktop is leaning towards self-hosting on Hetzner so they can control their own destiny and sponsors can contribute cash towards the bill instead of donating hardware. > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/freedesktop/freedesktop/-/iss...

I saw their original announcement and they said that their infra (3 AMD EPYC from generations ago, 3 Intel servers from 2 generations ago, 2 80-core ARM servers) would cost $24k/month at Equinix prices. I checked Hetzner's equivalent offerings, it would be ~$1.5k/month for newer AMD servers. It would probably be even less if they went with older servers listed at their auction. And it probably would be even less if t…

Hetzner does co-location as well, which would probably be even cheaper?

Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're handwaving. Anything can increase cost and complexity. Using Amazon S3 increases cost and complexity. Set up two locations. Set up rsync. It's still cheaper than cloud storage by far, and that's even after paying yourself handsomely for the script that runs rsync.

> You're handwaving. I do not see any concrete data from you either. This is a forum. Typically we'd just call this a "conversation." > Anything can increase cost and complexity. Using Amazon S3 increases cost and complexity. Yes, and you get something in return for that cost and complexity, so do you care to map out the differences or are you just going to stick to your simple disagreement? > Set up two locations. S…

He's not really forgetting monitoring (etc). You'll still need monitoring in place regardless of whether you're monitoring your own servers (colo, etc) or monitoring Cloud servers.

And "when stuff breaks" happens regardless of whether you've chosen Cloud or to run your own servers. It all breaks on occasion (though hopefully rarely).

Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you host bug trackers, git repos, CI runners or mailinglists on Bittorrent? Admittedly I am rather surprised by the storage requirements from Freedesktop.

You could host all of that on a single small VM or physical server.

Not their GitLab setup. GitLab is a resource hog, and from what I understand their setup is fairly well used.

Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this Hetzner's fault (or concern?) "Hey your customer is hosting a website with random pictures on it. One of them of me is unflattering. Please make them fix it"

They were hosting a StackOverflow copy, which is OK because of Creative Commons. All my answers were still under my name as it should be. The only difference to the original was my profile picture, which was an explicit porn image. For several weeks everyone searching for my name or my StackOverflow answers saw that. I'm glad that I was not looking for a job at the time. I exhausted all possibilities on all channels…

Hi there, would you mind giving me the abuse ID for this case. (When someone creates an abuse report with us, our confirmation email includes an abuse ID in the subject line.) If you still have that, and you would like me to ask a colleague about this case, please let me know. --Katie, Hetzner Online

Re: Popular Linux orgs Freedesktop and Alpine Linux are scrambling for new webhost

#110
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw their original announcement and they said that their infra (3 AMD EPYC from generations ago, 3 Intel servers from 2 generations ago, 2 80-core ARM servers) would cost $24k/month at Equinix prices. I checked Hetzner's equivalent offerings, it would be ~$1.5k/month for newer AMD servers. It would probably be even less if they went with older servers listed at their auction. And it probably would be even less if t…

They did the calculations for Hetzner themselves and came to $4258.33/mo.

They must be adding a ton of storage and/or memory to those servers, then.
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