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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#42

Post by suraci »

dontlaugh wrote: post #21
BytesAndGears wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: thanks for all of the replies, I’m questioning my framing here now due to some smart people’s thoughts.. I suggest reading the full thread, as there are some interesting comments. I see the obvious parallels to Trump, and I agree completely (and hate that it is happening). But I feel like I also see a lot of parallels to the democrats. Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example.…

I think you are correct precisely because both US major parties are on the same side, the side of capital.

and the side of israel? which happen to be the solidest evidence to prove someone is a nazi

no matter who you voted for, no matter if you voted or don't vote, you can not change this, you have no power to change it

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#44

Post by ImaCake »

muglug wrote: post #31

I don’t feel like the comparisons to Hitler are useful, at least when talking about the current US administration. There are lots more recent examples — Russia in the early 2000s under Putin, Hungary under Orban, South Africa under Apartheid — where democratic norms were gradually eroded, and the international community just sort of sighed and said "oh well, the people have spoken".

I think this mostly comes down to (1) people are more aware of Nazi Germany and thus its easier to use that context than another and (2) the Nazis were extreme even by comparison to their contemporaries and thus have been (presumably) studied the most.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#45

Post by BytesAndGears »

a_puppy wrote: post #32
BytesAndGears wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: thanks for all of the replies, I’m questioning my framing here now due to some smart people’s thoughts.. I suggest reading the full thread, as there are some interesting comments. I see the obvious parallels to Trump, and I agree completely (and hate that it is happening). But I feel like I also see a lot of parallels to the democrats. Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example.…

Rather than thinking in terms of "left vs. right", I think in terms of "extreme left vs. moderate left vs. moderate right vs. extreme right". I support moderates over extremists. I support democracy and rule of law. I care about this more than I care about left vs. right.

Agreed - I think we say similar things. I am mostly suggesting that authoritarians currently live in all sides of the aisle in our government right now. And they’ve all been ratcheting up in intensity, getting us used to “their” version of it. This latest jump being by far the most severe and scary.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#47

Post by littlestymaar »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #38
pagutierrezn wrote: post #19

To make matters worse, this is not only "rehappening" in the US. It's global

I'm curious if what is happening in the US and what has happened in Britain with Brexit actually ends up slowing some of these marches towards illiberalism in other places. Like when people are upset at the direction of a country or current policies, they may take a "throw the bums out" attitude even if the alternative is far worse. But perhaps they're looking at the complete shit show in the US and how unproductive…

In France at least, Brexit made the idea of leaving the EU obsolete in political discourse, both on the left and far right.

But at the same time French media just repeated the “it's a clumsy handwave from an autistic dude” narrative after Musk's Nazi salute so I'm not sure it will work this time.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#48

Post by Neil44 »

tivert wrote: post #39

Oh, goody. Isn't it great the Democrats prioritized keeping "the groups" and their donors happy? You know, instead of actually reorganizing around countering the existential threat they complained so loudly about?

Well they've tried absolutely nothing and they're all out of ideas

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#49

Post by muglug »

ImaCake wrote: post #44
muglug wrote: post #31

I don’t feel like the comparisons to Hitler are useful, at least when talking about the current US administration. There are lots more recent examples — Russia in the early 2000s under Putin, Hungary under Orban, South Africa under Apartheid — where democratic norms were gradually eroded, and the international community just sort of sighed and said "oh well, the people have spoken".

I think this mostly comes down to (1) people are more aware of Nazi Germany and thus its easier to use that context than another and (2) the Nazis were extreme even by comparison to their contemporaries and thus have been (presumably) studied the most.

Yeah, but it breaks down because Trump also knows that history, and knows that people want to compare him to Hitler, so he does a bunch of things that make the comparison harder.
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