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Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

washingtonpost.com

441–450 of 567 posts

Re: Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

#441
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising is just the surface layer—the excuse. Digital ads rely on collecting as much personal data as possible, but that data is the real prize. This creates a natural partnership with intelligence agencies: they may not legally collect the data themselves, but they can certainly buy access. This isn’t new. Facebook, for example, received early funding from In-Q-Tel, the CIA’s venture capital arm, and its origins…

Years ago a friend working in security told me that every telco operator in Elbonia has to have a special room in their HQ that's available 24/7 to some goverment officials. Men in black come and go as they please, and while what is actually happening in that room remains a mystery, they can tap straight to the system from within with no restrictions or traceability. Growing up in soviet bloc I took that story at fac…

Nice story, but…

> Years ago a friend working in security told me that every telco operator in Elbonia

See info about the fictional country of Elbonia here, from the Dilbert comics:

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert

Re: Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

#443
post #73
post #2

I initially thought that this was an announcement for a new pledge and thought, "they're going to forget about this the moment it's convenient." Then I read the article and realized, "Oh, it's already convenient." Google is a megacorp, and while megacorps aren't fundamentally "evil" (for some definitions of evil), they are fundamentally unconcerned with goodness or morality, and any appearance that they are is purely…

They’re not evil, they’re amoral and are designed to maximize profits for their investors. Evil is subjective.

> they’re amoral and are designed to maximize profits

Isn't that a contradiction? Morality is fundamentally a sense of "right and wrong". If they reward anything that maximizes short term profit and punish anything that works against it then it appears to me that they have a simple, but clearly defined sense of morality centered around profit.

Re: Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

#444
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it woke nonsense to not want to create a weapon that probabilistically determines if a civilian looks close enough like a bad guy to missle strike them?

This sentiment ignores the reality on the ground in favor of performative ideological purity - civilians are already getting blown up all the time by systems that do not even attempt to make any distinction between civilians and soldiers: artillery shells, mortars, landmines, rockets, etc.

> civilians are already getting blown up all the time by systems that do not even attempt to make any distinction between civilians and soldiers: artillery shells, mortars, landmines, rockets, etc.

Right, and everytime that happens because of miscalculations by our government they lose the very real and important public license to continue. Ultimately modern wars led by democracies are won by public desire to continue them. The American public can become very hesitant to wage war very fast, if we unleash Minority Report on the world for revenge

Re: Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it woke nonsense to not want to create a weapon that probabilistically determines if a civilian looks close enough like a bad guy to missle strike them?

Because "not wanting" to do something that would make the company money due to moral considerations that aren't shared by your competitors is idiotic.

Ah, the Nuremberg Defense

Re: Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

#447
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the U.S. needs every advantage it can get to improve its defense That’s one of the reasons for the turbulent times. Let’s face the truth, most of the defense can easily be used for offense and given the state of online security every progress gets into the wrong hands. Maybe it’s time to pause to make it more difficult for those wrong hands.

I guess you could put that on the U.S.'s plate and no doubt America has caused many issues around the world, but I think in generally its a good actor. Biggest conflicts today: Ukraine -- I would squarely put this on Russia, nothing to do with the U.S.; Sudan -- Maybe lack of knowledge, but I don't think it's fair to place much responsibility on the U.S. (esp relative to other actors); ditto DRC/Rwanda Yes, many defe…

> Ukraine -- I would squarely put this on Russia, nothing to do with the U.S.

Every kinetic reaction by Russia in Georgia and Ukraine is downstream of major destabilizing non-kinetic actions by the US.

You don't think the US fomenting revolutions in Russia's near-abroad was in any way a contributing factor to Russian understanding of the strategic situation on its western border? [1] You don't think the US unilaterally withdrawing from the ABM treaty[2], and then following that up with plans to put ABMs in Eastern Europe[3], were factors in the security stability of the region? You don't think that the US pushing to enlarge NATO without adjusting the CFE treaty to reflect the inclusion of new US allies had an impact? [4][5] It's long been known that the Russian military lacked the capacity for sustained offensive/expeditionary operations outside of its borders.[6][7] Until ~2014 it didn't even possess the force structure for peer warfare, as it had re-oriented its organization for counter-insurgency in the Caucasus. So what was driving US actions in Eastern Europe? This was a question US contrarians and politicians such as Pat Buchanan were asking as early as 1997. We've had almost 3 decades of American thinkers cautioning that pissing around in Russia's western underbelly would eventually trigger a catastrophic reaction[8], and here we are, with the Ukrainians paying the butcher's bill.

In the absence of US actions, the kleptocrats in Moscow would have been quite content continuing to print money selling natural resources to European industry and then wasting their largess buying up European villas and sports teams. But the siloviki have deep-seated paranoia which isn't entirely baseless (Russia has eaten 3 devastating wars originating from its open western flanks in the past ~120 years). As a consequence the US has pissed away one of the greatest accomplishments of the Cold War: the Sino-Soviet Split. Our hamfisted attempts to kick Russia while it was down have now forced the two principle powers on the Eurasian landmass back into bed with each other. This is NOT how we win The Great Game.

> Maybe I'm biased because I spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe and Ukraine, but I much prefer the U.S. with all our faults to another actor like China or Russia being dominant.

It would help to lead with this context. My position is that our actions ENSURE that a hostile Eurasian power bloc will become dominant. We should have used far less stick to integrate Russia into the Western security structure, as well as simply engaged them without looking down our noses at them as a defeated has-been power (play to their ego as a Great Power). A US-friendly Russia is needed to over-extend China militarily. We need China to be forced into committing forces to the long Sino-Russian border, much as Ukraine must garrison its border with Belarus. We need to starve the PRC's industry of cheap natural resources. Now the China-Russia-Iran soft-alliance has the advantage of interior lines across the whole continent, and a super-charged Chinese industrial base fed by Siberia. Due to the tyranny of distance, this will be an near-impossible nut to crack for the US in a conflict.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa

[2] https://www.armscontrol.org/events/2001-12/abm-treaty-withdr...

[3] https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/americas-abm...

[4] https://www.sipri.org/yearbook/2003/17

[5] https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-08/features/nato-and-ru...

[6] https://warontherocks.com/2021/11/feeding-the-bear-a-closer-...

[7] https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/...

[8] https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html

Re: Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

#448
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a cliche you hear from right winger in any country that has a progressive tax system Not a cliché - a fact. I'll explain to you. The incentive structure of progressive taxation is wrong: it only works for the few percent that are extremely money hungry: the few that are willing to work for lower and lower percentage gains. Normal people say "enough" and they give up once they have the nice house and a few t…

I'm also on the 39% marginal income tax rate in New Zealand. That income tax rate isn't the problem. Keeping $60K out of every $100K extra salary I make is plenty of motivation to work harder to make the extra $100K... especially because the taxes paid aren't burned, they mostly go to things I care about. The income tax rate isn't all that relevant to the costs and benefits of starting a company, so I don't understan…

> Keeping $60K out of every $100K extra salary I make is plenty of motivation to work harder

That's good that it motivates you. It doesn't motivate me any more. I'm not interested in "investing" more time for the reasons I have said.

> the taxes paid aren't burned, they mostly go to things I care about.

I'm pleased for you. I'd like to put more money towards things I care about.

> The income tax rate isn't all that relevant to the costs and benefits of starting a company

I am just less positive than you: it feels like win you lose, lose you lose bigger. I'm just pointing out that our government talks about supporting businesses but I've seen the waste from the repetitive attempts to monetise our scientific academics.

> The rewards for founding a successful company mostly aren't subject to income tax

Huh? Dividends are income. Or are you talking about the non-monetary rewards of owning a business?

> NZ has a very light capital gains regime

Which requires you to sell your company to receive the benefits of the lack of CGT. So every successful business in NZ is incentivised to sell. NZ sells it's jewels. Because keeping a company means paying income tax every year. NZ is fucking itself by selling anything profitable - usually to foreign buyers.

The one big ticket item I would like to save for is my retirement fund. But Labour/Greens want to take 50% to 100% of capital if you have over 2 million. A bullshit low amount drawdown at 4% is $80k/annum before tax LOL. Say investments go up by 6% per year and you want to withdraw 4%. Then a 2% tax is 100% of your gains. Plus I'm certain they will introduce means testing for super before I am eligible. And younger people are even more fucked IMHO. The reality is I need to plan to pay for the vast majority of my own costs when I retire, but I get to pay to support everybody else. I believe in socialist health care and helping our elderly, but the country is slowly going broke and I can't do much about that. I believe that our government will take whatever I have carefully saved - often to pay for people that were not careful (My peer-group is not wealthy so I see the good and the bad of how our taxes are spent). Why should I try to earn more to save?

Re: Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

#449
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least Google employees will sign petitions and do things that follow a moral code. It hardly matters what employees think anymore when the executives are weather-vanes who point in the direction of wealth and power over all else (just like the executives at their competitors). In case you missed it, a few days back Google asked all employees who don't believe in their "mission" to voluntarily resign.

That's not at all what happened. One of Google's division offered a "voluntary exit" in lieu of or in addition to an upcoming layoff, and the email announcing it suggested that it could be a good option for some folks, for example people struggling or for folks who didn't like Google's direction. That is not the same thing as asking everyone who doesn't believe in the mission to please resign.

> for folks who didn't like Google's direction

Which rhymes pretty well with not believing in their mission. They are telling people to leave instead of trying to influence the direction from the inside.

Re: Google drops pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance

#450

Why on earth would a for profit company refuse a potential line of profit? They already dumped "do no evil" many years ago and they are now all in on fuck the poor and fuck the rest: I'm making profits and all is fine. Google makes money and they don't appear to care how - its all about the money.

The problem with this is that if companies are just profit maximizers then one of the things it should do is to realign the government. After all, a friendlier government can help to decrease regulation and increase incentives. Plus, in a healthy economy if everyone is bribing the government shouldn’t it all cancel out? Well it turns out the poor don’t bribe the government very often, so they are easily ignored. And…

> The problem with this is that if companies are just profit maximizers then one of the things it should do is to realign the government

What do you think is happening right now?

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