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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#11
post #7

It is probably good to remember that this talks about the experience of a German, under Hitler's Nazi government. This isn't a text that refers to current events. It talks about what happened. How things progressed. Why everybody just ambled along. How it was possible that so many just went along. If you think there are parallels to current times, or if you feel this attacks you or your beliefs, there is value in thi…

I don’t see the call to action. It describes perfectly the feeling of hopelessness I’ve had for years now. The election was the last chance and everyone blew it.

[dead]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's good to be careful to not label as people as fascists unless they do things like, for example, literally do the Nazi salute while publicly addressing a crowd.

[flagged]

https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/illusory-truth-effect

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#14
post #3

[flagged]

Yes, it's good to be careful to not label as people as fascists unless they do things like, for example, literally do the Nazi salute while publicly addressing a crowd.

This German comedy sketch sums up this situation incredibly well IMO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgZtdmyKlI

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's good to be careful to not label as people as fascists unless they do things like, for example, literally do the Nazi salute while publicly addressing a crowd.

[flagged]

We all saw the Nazi salutes with our own eyes, the man and his ex girlfriend both follow and interact with avowed white supremacists and Nazis on his own platform.

The lie is coming from Musk and his cult of supporters.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#16

> What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And…

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#17
post #7

It is probably good to remember that this talks about the experience of a German, under Hitler's Nazi government. This isn't a text that refers to current events. It talks about what happened. How things progressed. Why everybody just ambled along. How it was possible that so many just went along. If you think there are parallels to current times, or if you feel this attacks you or your beliefs, there is value in thi…

I don’t see the call to action. It describes perfectly the feeling of hopelessness I’ve had for years now. The election was the last chance and everyone blew it.

There is still a lot we can do. Every demagogue and authoritarian regime collapses eventually, often quickly- and they haven't even succeeded in seizing total control yet. As long as we are alive, we can resist.

Moreover, even under the worst possible situations, individuals can find meaning and purpose. Viktor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning" on surviving concentration camps as well as James Stockdale's books on surviving as a POW in Vietnam show firsthand that it is possible.

"You have a right to make them hurt you, and they don't like to do it." -James Stockdale

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#18

> What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And…

Edit: thanks for all of the replies, I’m questioning my framing here now due to some smart people’s thoughts.. I suggest reading the full thread, as there are some interesting comments.

I see the obvious parallels to Trump, and I agree completely (and hate that it is happening). But I feel like I also see a lot of parallels to the democrats. Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example. They both have aspects that heavily mirror the article.

I normally am not a fan of both-sides’ing an issue, but this seems like a literal case of everyone in the government basically performing that they disagree with the other, while marching down similar paths. They fight on issues that get people excited, while conspiring together to inch towards a “mystery government” which we must just trust.

I believe the path forward is to find things in common with our neighbors rather than politicians. Even if we disagree on some political views with our neighbors, we likely still have a lot more in common with them than any politician.

And, if you disagree, really truly read this with a critical eye, imagining the other side. Listen to their complaints. Because they feel the same way about your side. I’ve literally heard smart people in both political parties call each other authoritarian. So maybe the issues are actually with both sides.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#20

> What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And…

Fascism took over Germany not by foreign attack, not by domestic civil war, not by subversion or trickery.

Fascism came with a whoop and a holler.

It was what most Germans wanted, or came to want under pressure from both reality and illusion.

They wanted it, they got it, and they liked it.

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