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America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

cnn.com

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Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#101

Post by tayo42 »

robert_foss wrote: post #38
lenerdenator wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if half of the air traffic controllers took the offer to leave their jobs, do we have a Plan B? In theory you could do what Reagan did and tell the military to do ATC. Whether or not this is a good idea is another matter.

Reagan taking away collective bargaining rights for ATCs seems to be what have led to the shortage and the helicopter accident last week.

Did reagan do anything good in hindsight? Everytime I hear about him he seems like the worst president until trump came along

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#102

Post by mayneack »

runako wrote: post #4

Seems like a colossal error to have asked them all to quit. I wonder -- if half of the air traffic controllers took the offer to leave their jobs, do we have a Plan B? The deadline they have been given to decide is Thursday; I have not seen any communication as to whether ATC (and TSA, etc.) will be operational Friday.

It seems they clawed back the offer or never gave it in the first place.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-exempt...

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#103

Post by kelseyfrog »

trunnell wrote: post #20

To those who know more about ATC: is there any hope of automation?

I don't know more about ATC, but it looks like a field ripe for disruption and innovation. AI should be able to handle the coordination of flights without the downside of the delays and limitations of the human training pipeline, worker fatigue, and stress - all for less expense. The more I think about it, the more I feel like I could have something tangible at the end of a weekend or two - at least a prototype.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#104

Post by kelseyfrog »

wry_discontent wrote: post #13
hansvm wrote: post #11

This should be easy enough to solve. Cut the hours back to something sane, and as much as possible time the airport closures in ways that affect the ruling class. You get bonus points if their jets are also delayed during normal taxiing and clearance requests -- explain that it's for their safety, since they're more important than everyone else and can't slot in to the same sorts of back-to-back landings that the com…

The ruling class makes the rules, though. That's their whole deal. That's why nothing works right.

It works right for them though. Curious question: Shouldn't those with a bigger stake in the economy have a bigger say in how it's ran?

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#105

Post by lesuorac »

runako wrote: post #4

Seems like a colossal error to have asked them all to quit. I wonder -- if half of the air traffic controllers took the offer to leave their jobs, do we have a Plan B? The deadline they have been given to decide is Thursday; I have not seen any communication as to whether ATC (and TSA, etc.) will be operational Friday.

It's a colossal error to accept. The government isn't authorized to do a buy-out by congress so you're just quitting and won't receive the payment.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#106

Post by pavel_lishin »

sc68cal wrote: post #46
GiorgioG wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cut the hours back to something sane, and as much as possible time the airport closures in ways that affect the ruling class The ruling class flies private aircraft and don't have to operate out of large municipal airports.

They're not going to want to fly to a tiny airport in the middle of nowhere and then have to drive into the city. That defeats the whole point

There are many airports within easy driving distance of major metropolitan areas, and regardless of what happens, once they get off the plane they get into a car driven by a driver.

I don't think it matters much to them whether they spend the hour in traffic out of JFK, or on a highway from White Plains.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#107

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

robert_foss wrote: post #38
lenerdenator wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if half of the air traffic controllers took the offer to leave their jobs, do we have a Plan B? In theory you could do what Reagan did and tell the military to do ATC. Whether or not this is a good idea is another matter.

Reagan taking away collective bargaining rights for ATCs seems to be what have led to the shortage and the helicopter accident last week.

The official investigation report is of course going to take a bit, but the ATC audio is public, and the helicopter was warned twice about the plane, and said they had a visual of the plane.

Besides never missing an opportunity to 'slam' the opposition, I have no idea why this is being construed as an ATC failure.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#108

Post by silisili »

duxup wrote: post #55
mooreds wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://www.faa.gov/jobs/career_fields/aviation_careers : > The approximate median annual wage for air traffic control specialists is $127,805. The salaries for entry-level air traffic control specialists increase as they complete each new training phase.

Seems like reasonable pay for what is a very important job. Wouldn't object to paying much much more.

I think they deserve much more, if for nothing else than because their career is age limited. And it's not like they can go work somewhere else with their career skills at that point. Pensions exist, but it's really a career you have to plan for and dedicate your life to.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#109

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

ang_cire wrote: post #58
psunavy03 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsflash: "planes are rich people's toys" has been killing general aviation already for a generation if not two.

The rising costs have made that much more true, though. My step-dad had a gorgeous 1940s Luscombe that he paid ~35k for in the 90s. He lived in an airpark where he paid 280k for a nice 3br house with a hangar. Good luck trying to replicate that now.

Having 85k of purely discretionary income (adjusting for inflation) is still pretty "rich people toy". That's about 105% median household income.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#110

Post by latentcall »

tayo42 wrote: post #101
robert_foss wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reagan taking away collective bargaining rights for ATCs seems to be what have led to the shortage and the helicopter accident last week.

Did reagan do anything good in hindsight? Everytime I hear about him he seems like the worst president until trump came along

Depends, were you rich in the 80’s? If so he was amazing at making you even richer.
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