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Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

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Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#221

Post by VagabundoP »

closewith wrote: post #204
e2le wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>enabled per language in Settings. Do they? I tried opening a French government site[1] and received the Firefox pop-up offering to translate the page. I did not have to enable anything in settings neither is the French language model downloaded. It seems translations are enabled by default. [1]: https://www.elysee.fr/

I stand corrected on this point, the language packs now auto-download. It's still a niche feature only partially built by a Horizon project (it was almost entirely built by commercial entities - MS and Mozilla) in a niche browser. It's an indictment of the Horizon programme that this is considered the pre-eminent success story.

Its actually helped me a twice the last two weeks and I would browse mostly English language sites and I imagine it would be great if English wasn't your first language.

I didn't even know it was a new Firefox feature but I thought it was cool.

Well done EU.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#222

Post by sofixa »

what wrote: post #49
esperent wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is accurate, looking at it from outside. I mean, yeah, they both want to end up sitting on the billionaires yacht. But one side wants to do that while looking out over a fascist dictatorship. The other side has some weird idea that the billionaires will use their wealth to create a good life for everyone else too. Even though the term went out of fashion, it's still trickle down economics. These tw…

>fascist dictatorship You probably shouldn’t be calling other people brainwashed.

What do you call it when one of the billionaires who proudly and publicly sponsored the winning candidate for president (who, fun fact, has nominated enough supreme court judges that they ruled he has total immunity on official acts, and got away with an insurrection, rape, financial fraud, so obviously not a qualified candidate) does a Nazi salute on live TV in front of the whole country?

If this were a book or a movie, everyone would be dismissing it as far too obvious and not how real world works.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#223

Post by rsynnott »

sarusso wrote: post #8

They allocated €37.4 million [1]. As an European, I truly don’t understand why they keep ignoring that the money required for such projects is at least an order of magnitude more. [1] https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/pioneering-ai-...

I mean, I get that the current strategy by most participants seems to be burning billions on models which are almost immediately obsoleted, but it's... unclear whether this is a _good_ strategy. _Especially_ after deepseek has just shown that there _are_ approaches other than just "throw infinite GPUs at it".

Like, insofar as any of this is useful, working on, say, more techniques for reducing cost feels a lot more valuable than cranking out yet another frontier model which will be superseded within months.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#224

Post by sofixa »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #113
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #97

Better late than never. I can't wait to get my hands on a mediocre AI that's 2 generations behind!

2 is generous. 5 is more likely. Also can't wait to get bombarded with cookie popup, ai bias popup, then ai accuracy popup etc.

> ai bias popup

It's all fun and games until AI models decide your type of people (blonde/brown/from that zip code/with that type of last name/went to that school/worked there in the past/have those facial features) are "bad" or "untrustworthy" or don't deserve healthcare or to be hired for that job or get a mortgage.

"AI" bias has existed for as long as we have had "AI" in its various forms. Remember ML algorithms classifying black people as monkeys? And the "solution" was to make them unable to find monkeys or primates. That one got big because of the implication.. when it's "people with the last name Smith being dumb", nobody will care

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#225

Post by rsynnott »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #135
miohtama wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Europe does not have enough money. This comes from taxes i.e. as an EU citizen you pay for the fun. Private sector often does not fund projects like these as they have bad return on investment.

>Because Europe does not have enough money. They seem to have enough to send overseas and to spend on illegal economic migrants. >Private sector often does not fund projects like these as they have bad return on investment. Then why does the private sector in the US fund projects like these?

> They seem to have enough to send overseas

If you mean the NDICI stuff, that's hardly 'sending money overseas', and it's a fairly tiny fraction of spending.

> and to spend on illegal economic migrants.

... What are you talking about here? What portion of the EU budget is spent on that? What activity specifically?

In the real world, most EU spending is on regional development, agricultural stuff, and operating the EU (civil service, enforcement bodies, etc etc). The EU is not a country and has only a very small budget (about 170bn/year).

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#226

Post by VagabundoP »

esperent wrote: post #53
what wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>fascist dictatorship You probably shouldn’t be calling other people brainwashed.

I hope you're right. I like America, I want you guys to overcome this. Just remember that what most people think of when you say "fascism" is "literally Nazis". I don't think many people believe that's where the US is heading. There are far more possible flavors of fascism. The direction of the US is more like what Russia has, an oligarchy, with elements of fascism like concentration camps.

Yep, fascism will mold itself to the current culture and climate, and in the US right now that seems it will be meme ironic but real fascism.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#227

Post by rsynnott »

rixed wrote: post #58

This article stayed on the front page of HN for a couple of days: https://timsh.org/tracking-myself-down-through-in-app-ads/ The author was in Europe. Aparently, all the rules protecting the privacy of european citizens make no difference in practice. I wonder why, but I believe the EU will look into this soon, since it would be so unconfortable if the king were bad.

Enforcement of the GDPR has been _grindingly_ slow; the first really significant fines weren't issued until 2022, when the Irish regulator finally pulled the finger out.

Presumably based on this experience, more recent internet-y laws (DMA, DSA, AI Act) are _not_ dependent on national regulators, and enforcement is getting off the ground more or less immediately. I'd expect that when the GDPR's successor shows up it'll follow suit.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#228

Post by GranularRecipe »

sunshine-o wrote: post #218
badlogic wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has lived through Eurostar and Horizon 2020, and who has participated as both a researcher and corporate partner, I can say: it does not work. Unless by work you mean "successfully passed the post-project review by non-experts based on a bunch of slides" Point at a single project of this sort that had any tangible output that's still in use.

I once registered as an "expert" on those EU related websites in the hope to be invited to an event where I could network. Next thing I know one of those Horizon 2020 project send me 20 proposals to evaluate and select by next week. Each of them was 50-100 pages long, mostly BS. I couldn't really do any real due diligence and I don't believe anybody did any on me. So just create register fake domain names to get a fa…

Where did you register yourself as an expert? Asking for a friend.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#229

Post by rsynnott »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #139
wg0 wrote: post #44

United we stand, divided we fall. More than LLMs, Europe needs chip autonomy. ASAP. Own fabs, own IP.

Europe as a project is over, it's all downhill from here. You can't regulate yourself into economic growth, and there is nothing else the Eurocrats care to do. There is still lots of fat in the land that they can leech off before Europe kicks the bucket.

I mean, people have been saying this about the EU and its predecessor organisations since about 1950. If you believe the right-wing media, the EU should collapse a few times a year from various causes; it's as bad as the Roman Empire!

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#230

Post by varjag »

VagabundoP wrote: post #219
varjag wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs are not "comparably complex" to LHC, they are perhaps 0.1% of the complexity from engineering POV. By any metric, from system design to physical infrastructure to run them.

Yeah the bar to entry for LLM is far far lower. CERN is a scientific marvel.

They had to design a reference standard quality nanovoltmeter because HP/Agilent could not keep up with volume & cost. And it was only one among scores of side quests.

https://hackaday.com/2021/02/26/homebrew-metrology-the-cern-...

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