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What's Going on at the FBI?

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Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#111

Post by 1659447091 »

hnbad wrote: post #75
thih9 wrote: post #20

I’m not from the US and news like this change my perception of that country - it seems unstable; just like I’m not considering a Wordpress blog, I’d think twice before any long term plans that involve the US. The comparison to the Wordpress drama works surprisingly well for me, complete with vendettas and an overzealous leader, just on an even larger scale and affecting more people.

I think "unstable" is the right word. You can argue that far more appalling things happen in places like Russia or China, sure. But this doesn't feel like a controlled assumption of power. It doesn't even feel like Trump is personally in control - let alone his "shadow president". It feels more like a chaotic romp through the federal government, disrupting operations and vital functions with little care or planning,…

> ... not Trump personally but the entire organism that surrounds him in this presidential term ... I don't think he actually has much control over this.

It was always strange to me when the far-right, and then mainstream republicans, started really leaning into this "Deep State" conspiracy theory--not liking the others politics is not reason to believe it was ever a thing on either side. Not in the way it was meant, there was no "shadow government".

At some point during Trumps first term something about that idea started to seem like they knew what they were talking about--and not talking about their projection of it onto the "other side". Now, if there was anything that has actually resembled this "deep state", it's what is being put on full display: our emperor got new clothes[0] and we're only at the stage of everyone frozen in cringe.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#112

Post by krapp »

1659447091 wrote: post #111
hnbad wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "unstable" is the right word. You can argue that far more appalling things happen in places like Russia or China, sure. But this doesn't feel like a controlled assumption of power. It doesn't even feel like Trump is personally in control - let alone his "shadow president". It feels more like a chaotic romp through the federal government, disrupting operations and vital functions with little care or planning,…

> ... not Trump personally but the entire organism that surrounds him in this presidential term ... I don't think he actually has much control over this. It was always strange to me when the far-right, and then mainstream republicans, started really leaning into this "Deep State" conspiracy theory--not liking the others politics is not reason to believe it was ever a thing on either side. Not in the way it was meant,…

Every accusation by the right is a confession.

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#113

Post by cinquemb »

mdhb wrote: post #110
cinquemb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realpolitik of the situation: you can only really have an alliance among equals and its foolish to believe otherwise with a massive power imbalance (I doubt the cultural boundaries in Europe will aid this endeavor for some kind of unified security umbrella, when unification of the sovereign euro debt markets has remained illusive as represented by the spreads). It's clear that the post wwii era where the US willi…

And realpolitik nobody will ever trust the US again they are going to in a much worse position for the rest of both our lives as a result of this. I don’t think a lot of Americans have any concept of exactly how much the rest of the world hates them right now but I promise you that you’re living in a very different world moving forward as is everyone else. You can’t spend generations telling everyone to depend on you…

That may be true, and Europeans will be free to trust the Russians and the Turkish as the those in SEA are free to trust the Chinese instead.

If the rest of the world doesn't send munitions on target stateside, Americans wont care. Just like they didn't care for the past 20+ years when DoD was tasked with bombing millions others in far away lands without explicit declaration by congress.

Perhaps those who build their relationships on negotiated reciprocity rather than blind trust will fair better in the coming era.

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#114

Post by mdhb »

cinquemb wrote: post #113
mdhb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And realpolitik nobody will ever trust the US again they are going to in a much worse position for the rest of both our lives as a result of this. I don’t think a lot of Americans have any concept of exactly how much the rest of the world hates them right now but I promise you that you’re living in a very different world moving forward as is everyone else. You can’t spend generations telling everyone to depend on you…

That may be true, and Europeans will be free to trust the Russians and the Turkish as the those in SEA are free to trust the Chinese instead. If the rest of the world doesn't send munitions on target stateside, Americans wont care. Just like they didn't care for the past 20+ years when DoD was tasked with bombing millions others in far away lands without explicit declaration by congress. Perhaps those who build their…

This response is again just underscoring why people around the world right now hold such an incredibly and deeply negative view of the country right now. You aren’t going to convince anyone else this is their fault that they should have known not to trust you and that they are somehow suckers.

People are motivated to make sure you feel the pain of this situation moving forward.

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#115

Post by hoseja »

vizzier wrote: post #4
mmastrac wrote: post #2

Wild to see a bloodless coup in action.

The worst part is, how do you even counter the injected rot? If they demand loyalty tests and infest your institutions how is it countered? do the other side also have to do the same (assuming they have the opportunity)? All feels incredibly illiberal. I hope for the best that the oaths of office specific to these institutions hold.

[flagged]

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#116

Post by pseudalopex »

mdhb wrote: post #110
cinquemb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realpolitik of the situation: you can only really have an alliance among equals and its foolish to believe otherwise with a massive power imbalance (I doubt the cultural boundaries in Europe will aid this endeavor for some kind of unified security umbrella, when unification of the sovereign euro debt markets has remained illusive as represented by the spreads). It's clear that the post wwii era where the US willi…

And realpolitik nobody will ever trust the US again they are going to in a much worse position for the rest of both our lives as a result of this. I don’t think a lot of Americans have any concept of exactly how much the rest of the world hates them right now but I promise you that you’re living in a very different world moving forward as is everyone else. You can’t spend generations telling everyone to depend on you…

> I don’t think a lot of Americans have any concept of exactly how much the rest of the world hates them right now.

It is worse. Many don't care. They believe in American exceptionalism.

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#117

Post by cinquemb »

mdhb wrote: post #114
cinquemb wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, and Europeans will be free to trust the Russians and the Turkish as the those in SEA are free to trust the Chinese instead. If the rest of the world doesn't send munitions on target stateside, Americans wont care. Just like they didn't care for the past 20+ years when DoD was tasked with bombing millions others in far away lands without explicit declaration by congress. Perhaps those who build their…

This response is again just underscoring why people around the world right now hold such an incredibly and deeply negative view of the country right now. You aren’t going to convince anyone else this is their fault that they should have known not to trust you and that they are somehow suckers. People are motivated to make sure you feel the pain of this situation moving forward.

When i see those people start to take actions that they have refused to do so for decades despite the warning signs along the road, I will take those motivations seriously.

Right now, its just a clown show in regards to that.

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#118

Post by monkeyfun »

hnbad wrote: post #83
whatever1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of the voting population were so fed up with the economy that they went with the nuclear option. It’s just that most of them have not read history and none of them have lived through war or fascism to understand what they are signing up for. They will all learn their lesson.

I think the problem is that most people think nothing ever happens, or to put it bluntly "It couldn't happen here". Harris literally offered nothing - when pressed she even said that she wouldn't have done anything different from Biden, which is the last thing you want to hear about a president whose only selling point was not being Trump and giving the country breathing room to come up with something better. Yes, th…

>The socdems are too concerned with protecting the optics of the system itself and maintaining decorum to directly attack a party that is fundamentally opposed to the principles underlying that system.

What an incredibly sharp phrasing there!

Your analysis overall seems really astute too, but what you just articulated there is too good. I almost want to try to compressing it even further -- what is needed most of all is short, concise rallying cries that draw attention and raise consciousness, and that's gotta be a great example of one.

I wonder what else could be said to really draw people's attention to this sort of thing, to try to achieve any sort of reform among liberals, to wake them up from centrism and complacency.

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#119

Post by mdhb »

cinquemb wrote: post #117
mdhb wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This response is again just underscoring why people around the world right now hold such an incredibly and deeply negative view of the country right now. You aren’t going to convince anyone else this is their fault that they should have known not to trust you and that they are somehow suckers. People are motivated to make sure you feel the pain of this situation moving forward.

When i see those people start to take actions that they have refused to do so for decades despite the warning signs along the road, I will take those motivations seriously. Right now, its just a clown show in regards to that.

Just as an example of what I mean here.

I genuinely don’t mean to imply this as any kind of threat whatsoever just as a friendly pointer but I don’t think yelling “what are you going to do about it?” In a public forum under an alias attached to your real name is a particularly sensible move at the moment.

Lots of things that might have not been a big deal a week ago I would feel a lot less sure about now personally.

Re: What's Going on at the FBI?

#120

Post by mdhb »

pseudalopex wrote: post #116
mdhb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And realpolitik nobody will ever trust the US again they are going to in a much worse position for the rest of both our lives as a result of this. I don’t think a lot of Americans have any concept of exactly how much the rest of the world hates them right now but I promise you that you’re living in a very different world moving forward as is everyone else. You can’t spend generations telling everyone to depend on you…

> I don’t think a lot of Americans have any concept of exactly how much the rest of the world hates them right now. It is worse. Many don't care. They believe in American exceptionalism.

This is unfortunately what I mean when I said before that everyone is very aware of that fact and a lot of people are now suddenly very motivated to provide them with a free reality check until they’re able to deal with their oligarchy problem.

I just watched a stadium full of Canadian hockey fans boo a black woman in a wheelchair singing the national anthem. I’d politely suggest that while that might look like a funny story on the surface is actually very dangerous.

Edit: updated language to not imply poster is American, I didn’t mean anything personal by it at all but better to clarify all the same.

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