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Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

theguardian.com

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Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#151

Post by AngryData »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #22
dcchambers wrote: post #20

I really thought the major "rust belt" cities were going to blow up after the big COVID WFH push. Why spend 2-10x as much to live in one of four coastal metros when you could get the same pay while living somewhere much cheaper. The biggest issue with these cities in the last 50 years has been a lack of high paying jobs and WFH tech jobs essentially negate that issue. There are a ton of American cities that have fall…

It seems evident that people, by and large, don’t like freezing temperatures.

I see a lot more people complain about the potential of freezing temperatures than they really are bothered to do anything about it. Ive seen this same thing from many people, but using my mother as an example, she has complained about ice and snow for the past 40 years ive been around, always claimed she wanted to move farther south to not deal with it, but she never has, and has even in the past few years thought about moving even farther North because unless you enjoy winter sports or work outside, you spend most of the winter time indoors where it doesn't actually matter that much.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#152

Post by AngryData »

qudat wrote: post #113
pc86 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think the delta in cost of living between Michigan and NYC/SF is a lot more than $50k/yr?

I live in Ann Arbor and I think you would be surprised by the CoL here. I’m not claiming sf/nyc numbers but it’s pretty close to Chicago numbers 2 bed 1k sqft condo downtown will costs you $800k-1mil

To be fair, there are also a lot of rural areas not far outside Ann Arbor that are still fairly cheap, although obviously not as cheap as more rural areas farther north.

Ann Arbor has always been a pretty unique place that pushes pricing up above normal. UofM is a large college that has lots of international draw, it holds the best medical facilities in the entire state, and have uniquely liberal laws within the city and the city itself puts an effort towards keeping out state cops. In I believe 1972 they made marijuana possession a mere $5 fine within the city, while the rest of the state would bring the hammer down on people for it, and so it was de facto legal there and the city held Hash Bash ever year since with people all smoking up in public while the rest of the state had people worried about cops finding a single seed or roach in their vehicle.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#153

Post by AngryData »

knowitnone wrote: post #85
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like any city most of these would happen in easily avoidable areas and there's no reason to live in fear about it unless you're one of those people for whom it's a hobby.

"easily avoidable areas" as if criminals don't have cars?

Law enforcement is not equally distributed so criminals also avoid certain areas to commit crimes in because they know they will get caught or killed by police if they do. But that also means they know certain low population density dilapidated areas that cops (and most everyone else) avoid, where they can easily get away with crimes, because not only are there no cops anywhere near, but the few people in those areas know not to talk to the police and help them catch you because they know they have basically zero protections living in that area from retribution.

Detroit is a very expansive place, and there is basically zero reason to go into the run down dangerous areas unless you are also dirt poor or involved in criminal enterprise.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#154

Post by nkrisc »

ghaff wrote: post #139
gcanyon wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Los Angeles, Seattle, D.C., New York, Las Vegas, San Diego, and Boston. I've spent time in Phoenix, San Francisco, Kansas City, Chicago, Miami, Portland, Atlanta, and Orlando. None of them come close to what you see in St. Louis. As a disclaimer, I always tell people, every bad thing you hear about St. Louis is true, and worse than you've heard -- but also that the many, many good things about St. Louis…

Many cities have bad areas. But few have that 15 minute dynamic. OK maybe SF with the Tenderloin but even Howard St. isn't as bad as it used to be.

In some smaller cities like Savannah that gradient shift is a matter of blocks.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#155

Post by coolyd »

qudat wrote: post #113
pc86 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think the delta in cost of living between Michigan and NYC/SF is a lot more than $50k/yr?

I live in Ann Arbor and I think you would be surprised by the CoL here. I’m not claiming sf/nyc numbers but it’s pretty close to Chicago numbers 2 bed 1k sqft condo downtown will costs you $800k-1mil

This is a pretty interesting take.

Anyone concerned with cost of living should not be considering a condo downtown. Overall the COL in detroit is around 45% lower for real estate and over 25% cheaper groceries versus new york. There will always be overpriced condos available.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#156

Post by fzzzy »

francisofascii wrote: post #11
RALaBarge wrote: post #4

30 miles West in Ann Arbor, there are tech gigs but not tons of them. If you are apart of the University of Michigan, there are tons of opportunities via the college and the groups there, but if not there aren't tons of openings. Detroit itself is an amazing city, but it isn't a tech hub, nor is it for everyone. It is the shell of the automotive companies that started to move their operations of out the country in th…

I'm curious if Lansing, the capital of Michigan, offers opportunities for government contractor work due to its proximity. With Lansing, Detroit, and Ann Arbor relatively close to each other, semi-remote roles might be feasible.

Lansing has been the epitome of what the rust belt means for decades already.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#157

Post by fzzzy »

evantbyrne wrote: post #70
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've actually looked at Ann Arbor before as I adore college towns and was looking at trying to find one in the great lakes region as a forever / retirement destination. Given you're from the area would you have any others to recommend? Things I'm mainly looking for: * A climate change refuge * No 'lake effect' snow * Continuing education opportunities (i.e. auditing classes as a retiree) * A good public / uni library…

Grand Rapids and Traverse City might meet your criteria, but it's hard to say given how subjectively they are worded. If you want to live in a town with a large university, then obviously just look at the top three universities by size in each state.

Lots of lake effect snow there.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#158

Post by jt2190 »

Qwertious wrote: post #119
jt2190 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing is cheap because the job market is poor. Should enough remote workers choose to relocate to the same rust-belt city we’d see higher housing prices in that city. The challenge is that rust-belt cities are just not desirable enough for enough remote workers to reverse the decades of decline. Furthermore, there is no reason that remote workers would cluster by geography other than fear of loosing their remote jo…

>Furthermore, there is no reason that remote workers would cluster by geography other than fear Amenities. Some things (and communities) just aren't available elsewhere. And some people just value their local identity too much to move.

> Amenities

Yes, but what amenities do rust-belt cities have exclusively, that other cities can’t compete with?

> … [Some] people just value their local identity too much.

Sure, but I assume that there just aren’t enough of these types to stop the decline of the rust-belt, otherwise we’d see more resilience of their populations.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#159

Post by pc86 »

qudat wrote: post #113
pc86 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think the delta in cost of living between Michigan and NYC/SF is a lot more than $50k/yr?

I live in Ann Arbor and I think you would be surprised by the CoL here. I’m not claiming sf/nyc numbers but it’s pretty close to Chicago numbers 2 bed 1k sqft condo downtown will costs you $800k-1mil

It looks like the big issue with Ann Arbor is supply. I just pulled up Chicago Zillow for this criteria (1-1.25k sqft, 2 bed exact, 1+ bath, condos only, for sale not rent) and am having trouble finding one for more than $700k. Lots in the $350-400k range. Overall there are hundreds, with almost every block having at least one in the "nice" downtown area.

Leaving criteria the same and switching to Ann Arbor, I see four, with only one of them actually being downtown, for $725k (but the other three are all under $300k). I would consider Ann Arbor more expensive than Chicago, at least for this type of unit, but not necessarily because there's more demand.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#160

Post by ghaff »

nkrisc wrote: post #154
ghaff wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many cities have bad areas. But few have that 15 minute dynamic. OK maybe SF with the Tenderloin but even Howard St. isn't as bad as it used to be.

In some smaller cities like Savannah that gradient shift is a matter of blocks.

I lived in New Orleans for a bit and a dynamic you have there is that you have streets that were the historically nice homes and you have nearby--even adjacent--streets that were where the slaves lived and remnants of that dichotomy can still be seen in a lot of the housing quality.
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