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Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

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Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#41

Post by esperent »

majormajor wrote: post #36
esperent wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an American, most of this post reads like doublespeak satire Yeah, you guys have a lot of brainwashing to get over. I can imagine that you're deeply conditioned to read any outside views on politics as satire. One kind of brainwashing is the need to reframe everything political into sports metaphors. The EU is not a sports team. It's a political entity. Whatever you might have been taught, these are very differe…

> EU politics isn't like that. We are trying to work together, not kill each other. Oh? Been quite a while longer since there was war inside the US than war inside Europe. While it's been no time at all since vicious party battles in major European countries. Or countries nope'ing out entirely. But apparently fascists are only a thing in the US now? > creating a model that will match whatever current model is conside…

> Been quite a while longer since there was war inside the US than war inside inEurope

Maybe you need to look up why the EU exists in the first place. Way back when it was called the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC). There haven't been any wars between member countries since it's foundation, so I think it's working pretty well, actually.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#42

Post by whimsicalism »

FanaHOVA wrote: post #30
jpdus wrote: post #13

As someone who is in general skeptical of programs like this (and an European) there are 2 remarkable / timely things about this: - This project doesn't just allocate money to universities or one large company, but includes top research institutions as well as startups and GPU time on supercomputing clusters. The participants are very well connected (e.g. also supported by HF, Together and the likes with European roo…

The problem is that: - These are not really super computing cluster in LLM terms. Leonardo is a 250 PFlops cluster. That is really not much at all. - If people in charge of this project actually believe R1 costs $5.5M to build from scratch, it's already over.

> If people in charge of this project actually believe R1 costs $5.5M to build from scratch, it's already over.

wdym?

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#45

Post by lolinder »

esperent wrote: post #19
sarusso wrote: post #8

They allocated €37.4 million [1]. As an European, I truly don’t understand why they keep ignoring that the money required for such projects is at least an order of magnitude more. [1] https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/pioneering-ai-...

Deepseek's release has shown that there's no great risk in getting left behind. All the info is out there, people with skills are readily available, creating a model that will match whatever current model is considered frontier level is not that hard for an entity like the EU. For everyone here shouting that the EU needs to do something, be a leader, what have they lost so far by choosing to lead in legislation inste…

> legislation is kind of the point of a government in the first place

I would personally consider legislation to be but one means to an end, with the point of a (democratic) government actually being to ensure stability and prosperity for its citizens.

In that framework, "leading with legislation" doesn't make any sense—you can lead with results, but the legislation is not itself a result! Lead with development or lead with standard of living or lead with civil rights, but don't lead with legislation.

Your formulation sounds like politician's logic: "something must be done, this is something, therefore we must do it". Legislation as an end in itself. Very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vidzkYnaf6Y

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#46

Post by fforflo »

In the EU, we need some social contracts for those things. Multiple EU-funded projects are launched, consortiums between Unis and Private sector companies are created, deliverables are delivered, and grants are allocated, but the cumulative results haven't been that great, have they? That has happened for every "trend," from nuclear physics to "expert systems" in the 1990s to green tech, now AI, etc.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#47

Post by websap »

fforflo wrote: post #46

In the EU, we need some social contracts for those things. Multiple EU-funded projects are launched, consortiums between Unis and Private sector companies are created, deliverables are delivered, and grants are allocated, but the cumulative results haven't been that great, have they? That has happened for every "trend," from nuclear physics to "expert systems" in the 1990s to green tech, now AI, etc.

Here's the simple question - who gets fired when the deliverables aren't met?

This is the single greatest motivators for American companies in our exhausting capitalistic society.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#48

Post by MR4D »

jpdus wrote: post #13

As someone who is in general skeptical of programs like this (and an European) there are 2 remarkable / timely things about this: - This project doesn't just allocate money to universities or one large company, but includes top research institutions as well as startups and GPU time on supercomputing clusters. The participants are very well connected (e.g. also supported by HF, Together and the likes with European roo…

The money doesn’t matter.

The goals don’t matter.

The people don’t matter.

The only thing that matters is how much regulatory red tape is involved.

My guess is that the paperwork will kill this. Read the announcement. Too much discussion about regulatory framework. In the US or China, all you need is some money and smart people. That’s a very low barrier to getting moving forward.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#49

Post by what »

esperent wrote: post #32
mandmandam wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There you have two teams determined to beat the other at all costs On the surface. It's all kayfabe though; heels and babyfaces. Just like with wrestling, the media know the score, and all the angles. After the match, they all laugh and joke together on the depraved billionaire owner's megayacht.

I don't think this is accurate, looking at it from outside. I mean, yeah, they both want to end up sitting on the billionaires yacht. But one side wants to do that while looking out over a fascist dictatorship. The other side has some weird idea that the billionaires will use their wealth to create a good life for everyone else too. Even though the term went out of fashion, it's still trickle down economics. These tw…

>fascist dictatorship

You probably shouldn’t be calling other people brainwashed.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#50

Post by tokioyoyo »

majormajor wrote: post #36
esperent wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an American, most of this post reads like doublespeak satire Yeah, you guys have a lot of brainwashing to get over. I can imagine that you're deeply conditioned to read any outside views on politics as satire. One kind of brainwashing is the need to reframe everything political into sports metaphors. The EU is not a sports team. It's a political entity. Whatever you might have been taught, these are very differe…

> EU politics isn't like that. We are trying to work together, not kill each other. Oh? Been quite a while longer since there was war inside the US than war inside Europe. While it's been no time at all since vicious party battles in major European countries. Or countries nope'ing out entirely. But apparently fascists are only a thing in the US now? > creating a model that will match whatever current model is conside…

I don't have much skin in this pissing contest, but I've lived in Europe, North America and East Asia.

> What industry has the EU caught up in or maintained pace

What industries is the US leading which reflects itself in improvement of quality of life of its citizens? Cause some things really don't matter in grand scheme of things.

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