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Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

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Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#31

Post by mandmandam »

esperent wrote: post #27
tesch1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lead in legislation > legislation is kind of the point of a government As an American, most of this post reads like doublespeak satire. I guess it's not, but just to put a transatlantic pov here. I'll add a sports metaphor for good measure: in order to become expert football players, we'll get tickets to watch the best teams play.

> As an American, most of this post reads like doublespeak satire Yeah, you guys have a lot of brainwashing to get over. I can imagine that you're deeply conditioned to read any outside views on politics as satire. One kind of brainwashing is the need to reframe everything political into sports metaphors. The EU is not a sports team. It's a political entity. Whatever you might have been taught, these are very differe…

> There you have two teams determined to beat the other at all costs

On the surface. It's all kayfabe though; heels and babyfaces. Just like with wrestling, the media know the score, and all the angles. After the match, they all laugh and joke together on the depraved billionaire owner's megayacht.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#32

Post by esperent »

mandmandam wrote: post #31
esperent wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an American, most of this post reads like doublespeak satire Yeah, you guys have a lot of brainwashing to get over. I can imagine that you're deeply conditioned to read any outside views on politics as satire. One kind of brainwashing is the need to reframe everything political into sports metaphors. The EU is not a sports team. It's a political entity. Whatever you might have been taught, these are very differe…

> There you have two teams determined to beat the other at all costs On the surface. It's all kayfabe though; heels and babyfaces. Just like with wrestling, the media know the score, and all the angles. After the match, they all laugh and joke together on the depraved billionaire owner's megayacht.

I don't think this is accurate, looking at it from outside. I mean, yeah, they both want to end up sitting on the billionaires yacht.

But one side wants to do that while looking out over a fascist dictatorship.

The other side has some weird idea that the billionaires will use their wealth to create a good life for everyone else too. Even though the term went out of fashion, it's still trickle down economics.

These two sides are not the same. They're both bad, but one is much worse. The last time fascism took hold it took nuclear bombs in Japan and firebombing Dresden to end it.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#34

Post by ur-whale »

> The models will be developed within Europe's robust regulatory framework, ensuring alignment with European values while maintaining technological excellence.

translation: weakest competitor in the contest enters the fight with both hands tied behind its back and a budget akin to what OpenAI spends in a week on compute.

But hey, more power to you Europe: the more models around, the better.

Eventually, we'll be able to bind all those censored models worldwide into one giant mixture of expert to get rid of the built-in censorship of each individual component.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#35

Post by ur-whale »

lnauta wrote: post #26
Fnoord wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Mistral past week due to changes in geopolitics, and Mistral works absolutely great in English. I haven't bothered in my native language yet, but in English it worked great. Better than my first experience with ChatGPT (GPT 3.5), actually.

I've been using mistral for most of January at the same rate as chatgpt before. I decided to pay for it as its per token (in and out) and the bill came yesterday... A whopping 1 cent. Thats probably rounded up.

> I decided to pay for it as its per token (in and out) and the bill came yesterday... A whopping 1 cent.

Doesn't sound too good wrt their eventual profitability.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#36

Post by majormajor »

esperent wrote: post #27
tesch1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lead in legislation > legislation is kind of the point of a government As an American, most of this post reads like doublespeak satire. I guess it's not, but just to put a transatlantic pov here. I'll add a sports metaphor for good measure: in order to become expert football players, we'll get tickets to watch the best teams play.

> As an American, most of this post reads like doublespeak satire Yeah, you guys have a lot of brainwashing to get over. I can imagine that you're deeply conditioned to read any outside views on politics as satire. One kind of brainwashing is the need to reframe everything political into sports metaphors. The EU is not a sports team. It's a political entity. Whatever you might have been taught, these are very differe…

> EU politics isn't like that. We are trying to work together, not kill each other.

Oh? Been quite a while longer since there was war inside the US than war inside Europe. While it's been no time at all since vicious party battles in major European countries. Or countries nope'ing out entirely. But apparently fascists are only a thing in the US now?

> creating a model that will match whatever current model is considered frontier level is not that hard for an entity like the EU

What industry has the EU caught up in or maintained pace in like that by "leading in legislation"?

I'd probably much rather retire in the EU than in the US but... there are certainly cons, not just pros, to the lack of urgency and bureaucratic "lets throw words at the problem" approach to economic development.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#37

Post by Fnoord »

Fnoord wrote: post #9
moffkalast wrote: post #3

> The models will be developed within Europe's robust regulatory framework, ensuring alignment with European values while maintaining technological excellence As a European, that's practically an oxymoron. The more one limits oneself to legally clean data, the worse the models will be. I hate to be pessimistic from the get go, but it doesn't sound like anything useful will be produced by this and we'll have to keep r…

I've been using Mistral past week due to changes in geopolitics, and Mistral works absolutely great in English. I haven't bothered in my native language yet, but in English it worked great. Better than my first experience with ChatGPT (GPT 3.5), actually.

Update: tried a couple of Dutch (my native language) queries, and it worked well. No issues whatsoever. Which is no surprise, given Dutch English and vice versa translations often work very well.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#39

Post by riedel »

jpdus wrote: post #13

As someone who is in general skeptical of programs like this (and an European) there are 2 remarkable / timely things about this: - This project doesn't just allocate money to universities or one large company, but includes top research institutions as well as startups and GPU time on supercomputing clusters. The participants are very well connected (e.g. also supported by HF, Together and the likes with European roo…

I wish you the best of luck. However, this is basically a still just a European joint research project (admittedly compatibly well funded) with similar partners that have been also connected before in other research projects. To really compete in the space it will require new ideas, great talent and good leadership towards a common goal. I have myself been part of many EU funded projects and know the difficulty of realizing this within such a project. Public funding sadly has adversarial effects sometimes.

As for computing cost: as EuroHPC gives resources to research for free there can be more budget for computing. The EuroHPC joint undertaking has just decided to invest hundreds of millions of Euro in new AI clusters and supporting services. So this can come on top. Actually projects like this are much needed to also make good use of the money.

Disclaimer: my lab is involved in one of the new AI Factories.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#40

Post by riedel »

sarusso wrote: post #8

They allocated €37.4 million [1]. As an European, I truly don’t understand why they keep ignoring that the money required for such projects is at least an order of magnitude more. [1] https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/pioneering-ai-...

As said before in another comment. The project can likely make use of 'free' EuroHPC resources, which will also be funded simultaneously with hundreds of millions. Still not Stargate, but if they can actually innovate something beyond the obvious (like R1) I think the money is still useful.
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