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Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

theguardian.com

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Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#121

Post by bluedino »

qudat wrote: post #114
RALaBarge wrote: post #4

30 miles West in Ann Arbor, there are tech gigs but not tons of them. If you are apart of the University of Michigan, there are tons of opportunities via the college and the groups there, but if not there aren't tons of openings. Detroit itself is an amazing city, but it isn't a tech hub, nor is it for everyone. It is the shell of the automotive companies that started to move their operations of out the country in th…

I live in A2 as well and I don’t even bother looking for gigs here. Duo used to be the tech company to work for here but they were bought by Cisco which is not really my vibe. Barracuda is another big name but other than that I cannot name many others.

Isn't Techsmith (Camtasia) down there somewhere?

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#122

Post by bluedino »

ghaff wrote: post #72
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've actually looked at Ann Arbor before as I adore college towns and was looking at trying to find one in the great lakes region as a forever / retirement destination. Given you're from the area would you have any others to recommend? Things I'm mainly looking for: * A climate change refuge * No 'lake effect' snow * Continuing education opportunities (i.e. auditing classes as a retiree) * A good public / uni library…

You probably need to decide if you want no "lake effect" snow specifically or just don't want a lot of snow. It still snows a lot in places that aren't Buffalo or Syracuse. Just in New York state Ithaca is pretty much out of the lake effect snow belt but it still snows quite a bit.

Michigan really only has lake effect snow on the western shore

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#123

Post by bityard »

francisofascii wrote: post #11
RALaBarge wrote: post #4

30 miles West in Ann Arbor, there are tech gigs but not tons of them. If you are apart of the University of Michigan, there are tons of opportunities via the college and the groups there, but if not there aren't tons of openings. Detroit itself is an amazing city, but it isn't a tech hub, nor is it for everyone. It is the shell of the automotive companies that started to move their operations of out the country in th…

I'm curious if Lansing, the capital of Michigan, offers opportunities for government contractor work due to its proximity. With Lansing, Detroit, and Ann Arbor relatively close to each other, semi-remote roles might be feasible.

I lived in Lansing 10 years ago. Honestly, it was pretty depressing. We lived in an old neighborhood between the downtown area and south Lansing which while not conventionally dangerous, was an area I always avoided driving or walking around at night if I could avoid it. The west side is fine but bland, a mix of suburban and apartment living. East Lansing is more interesting due to being a college town. The outlying towns are bedroom communities with fairly high property values.

Work-wise, there were mostly small businesses or branches of large national brands. I tried to get into government work several times but never made it. There were LOADS of non-profits (some government affiliated) who would take just about anyone with a pulse but the pay was quite low as well.

After about a decade there, we moved 45 minutes east and never looked back.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#124

Post by guywithahat »

yawgmoth wrote: post #15

In my experience, companies based in Michigan pay 20-50k lower and do not have staff/principal roles available. You have to find a remote role to stay competitive wage wise. Some companies are not willing to pay as much for Michigan workers as they are NY/SF/elsewhere workers, too. I think the reality is Columbus and Chicago are growing quicker than Detroit. The relative increase here might be "buzzing" but in absolu…

> companies based in Michigan pay 20-50k lower

I think this happens in a lot of second-tier cities and it’s really frustrating. I’m currently interviewing for neuralink and they pay 30k less in Austin (which isn’t even really a second tier city) compared to Fremont; frankly I’d rather live in Austin but Fremont is more desirable with the pay boost.

Whoever thought up the line “it costs more to live here so we deserve more” was a genius. Logically you should get less if you live somewhere expensive since the companies rent and operating expenses are also more expensive, but I guess not

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#125

Post by tombert »

no_wizard wrote: post #37
dcchambers wrote: post #20

I really thought the major "rust belt" cities were going to blow up after the big COVID WFH push. Why spend 2-10x as much to live in one of four coastal metros when you could get the same pay while living somewhere much cheaper. The biggest issue with these cities in the last 50 years has been a lack of high paying jobs and WFH tech jobs essentially negate that issue. There are a ton of American cities that have fall…

Most companies will cut your pay based on where you live, though. You aren’t usually paid the same. That isn’t the norm. Secondly and probably more important is there is zero guarantees that WFH will be supported by the work places they can support it will, we have seen a huge RTO surge. I’d hate to be in one of these cities and get that call. If WFH opportunities had legal protections and incentives it’d be a differ…

Yeah, that's part of the reason I haven't left NYC.

I've wanted to leave here for a couple years but I have been afraid that if I moved to a more rural area, I'd have trouble finding work if there was ever a huge return to office, in which case I might be forced to move back to a big city and I'd have to buy a house for a lot more than I paid.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#126

Post by RALaBarge »

guywithahat wrote: post #118
RALaBarge wrote: post #4

30 miles West in Ann Arbor, there are tech gigs but not tons of them. If you are apart of the University of Michigan, there are tons of opportunities via the college and the groups there, but if not there aren't tons of openings. Detroit itself is an amazing city, but it isn't a tech hub, nor is it for everyone. It is the shell of the automotive companies that started to move their operations of out the country in th…

> who the Big 3 have abandoned for a profit. I don’t think anyone left Detroit willingly; they were forced out due to race riots, threats to their life, and the UAW. The big 3 lost billions trying to revive the city in spite of the local politicians If your book implies or says it was somehow due to greed, you should respectfully find a new book.

That's cool. Feel free to leave a reference or something. From the Wiki description:

The Origins of the Urban Crisis: Race and Inequality in Postwar Detroit is the first book by historian and Detroit native Thomas J. Sugrue in which he examines the role race, housing, job discrimination, and capital flight played in the decline of Detroit. Sugrue argues that the decline of Detroit began long before the 1967 race riot. Sugrue argues that institutionalized and often legalized racism resulted in sharply limited opportunities for African Americans in Detroit for most of the 20th century. He also argues that the process of deindustrialization, the flight of investment and jobs from the city, began in the 1950s as employers moved to suburban areas and small towns and also introduced new labor-saving technologies. The book has won multiple awards including a Bancroft Prize in 1998

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#127

Post by cobertos »

dgfitz wrote: post #102
gcanyon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

St. Louis is similar: you can walk from downtown to empty grass-filled blocks in about fifteen minutes. My favorite story is the origin of the City Museum (which, shoutout to the City Museum, it's awesome). The City Museum building is in a former factory, it's about 11 stories tall and fills a city block. It's on the edge of downtown about a dozen blocks from the Arch. The artist behind the museum bought the building…

I think most US cities are like that in the “downtown to disheveled in 15 minutes” sense.

I'm not quite so sure. The amount of demolished blight in Detroit has left this eerie urban meadow feeling to a decent amount of areas in the vicinity of downtown. Walking the empty streets with empty lots and a few normal or a few burnt out houses is peaceful and fun in a way you wouldn't expect. I haven't seen it in a lot of cities.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#128

Post by garciansmith »

guywithahat wrote: post #118
RALaBarge wrote: post #4

30 miles West in Ann Arbor, there are tech gigs but not tons of them. If you are apart of the University of Michigan, there are tons of opportunities via the college and the groups there, but if not there aren't tons of openings. Detroit itself is an amazing city, but it isn't a tech hub, nor is it for everyone. It is the shell of the automotive companies that started to move their operations of out the country in th…

> who the Big 3 have abandoned for a profit. I don’t think anyone left Detroit willingly; they were forced out due to race riots, threats to their life, and the UAW. The big 3 lost billions trying to revive the city in spite of the local politicians If your book implies or says it was somehow due to greed, you should respectfully find a new book.

Sugrue's "The Origins of the Urban Crisis" has a much more nuanced thesis, and part of it is that people were leaving well before the 1967 Uprising, part of it was broader economic changes, part of it was governmental policies (especially with regards to housing and transportation).

The causes of the decline of Detroit's population are complex, not something that can be distilled in an HN comment honestly. But the idea that no one left Detroit willingly is not correct. I know people who did, even interviewed someone who said their family left due to simple racism: a Black family moved to their neighborhood so they left. Of course, in many cases choices could be weighted by other things like, say, you wanted to purchase a house but couldn't get a mortgage in the city due to extensive redlining but could easily get one in the suburbs.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#129

Post by bityard »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #60
RALaBarge wrote: post #4

30 miles West in Ann Arbor, there are tech gigs but not tons of them. If you are apart of the University of Michigan, there are tons of opportunities via the college and the groups there, but if not there aren't tons of openings. Detroit itself is an amazing city, but it isn't a tech hub, nor is it for everyone. It is the shell of the automotive companies that started to move their operations of out the country in th…

I've actually looked at Ann Arbor before as I adore college towns and was looking at trying to find one in the great lakes region as a forever / retirement destination. Given you're from the area would you have any others to recommend? Things I'm mainly looking for: * A climate change refuge * No 'lake effect' snow * Continuing education opportunities (i.e. auditing classes as a retiree) * A good public / uni library…

I live in this area, and feel qualified to comment.

> climate change refuge

Not totally sure what that means, but we get anywhere between 2-4 weeks of (usually non-consecutive) high heat (90F plus) per summer and 7 months of cold, as judged by whether or not I ride my motorcycle. If you mean will you have to swim through your house after the polar ice caps melt, no, I don't believe so.

> Continuing education opportunities

You're in luck, there two major universities, a community college, and branch locations for other universities and colleges, all within probably 10 minutes of each other.

> A good public / uni library system

The AADL and Ypsilanti libraries are amazing. Thanks to Melcat, you can borrow any book at any other Michigan library.

> Walkable density

As long as you're okay renting. Ann Arbor property values and property taxes are reasonably ridiculous and Ypsi is getting there. That said, I live in a suburb north of Ypsi and there are enough sidewalks and trails here to keep me happy. (But I do have to drive for all of my errands.)

> Reasonable cost of living

I consider AA/Ypsi to be on the low end of medium COL. Everyday living stuff (groceries, gas) is pretty typical compared to other places around the state but housing and entertainment are higher. As an upside, there is no local income tax, only federal and state.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#130

Post by bityard »

psunavy03 wrote: post #78
filoleg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an alternative proposal to Ann Arbor for this that hits every single one of your criteria, but with a plus-minus (with a caveat, but i will elaborate on that later) regarding reasonable cost of living. That would be Seattle area. I will go point by point. The good: * According to their own Climate Vulnerability Assessment[0], the region is fairly resilient to the impacts of the climate change. * There is no la…

There is no state income tax . . . yet. But the "soak the rich" band is already tuning up, and with the cost of living being what it is out here, "rich" will probably include anyone who can afford a house.

I'm confused by this. I live in Michigan and have been paying state income tax ever since my first job.
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