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El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

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81–90 of 930 posts

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#81
post #37

Here is the retained purchasing power of each of the coins since the law was passed in September 2021: Legal tender 1: -15% Legal tender 2: +115% Guess which one has been deemed a "Failed experiment".

If legal tender #2 went up 115% in 4 years I would feel like a jackass for spending it in 2021 because I would have doubled my money if I saved it. Do you see the absurdity?

Inflationary legal tender is a novel concept.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#82
post #33

Do pro-bitcoin people still talk about goals of bitcoin being a currency that people use daily? I don't follow it closely, but that idea seems to have faded and now it's just an asset to buy and hold while it magically goes up forever.

Those who continue to invest in and use the Lightning (layer 2) network think it will be used as currency but most see it as a long term storage of value, at least until infrastructure supporting layers 2 and 3 mature. As for “magically,” there’s nothing magic about its increase in value as it replaces legacy technology, chiefly gold as a store of value.

Except it has none of the properties of gold as an asset. The value of bitcoin is highly correlated with equities and anti-correlated with gold. It’s the opposite of what you want to be holding as a hedge against a stock market crash.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#83
post #33

Do pro-bitcoin people still talk about goals of bitcoin being a currency that people use daily? I don't follow it closely, but that idea seems to have faded and now it's just an asset to buy and hold while it magically goes up forever.

Why would anyone spend a single BTC/sat. if they know it could be worth 10x more in a few weeks/years?

Because they need toilet paper today.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#84
post #27

> The government, she assured, will continue buying bitcoin and having reserves in this cryptocurrency Sounds like the term "Failed Experiment" is the writer's assertion and not the government official position.

From the article: > Salvadorans, with the exception of a few, never embraced Bukele’s initiative, who enjoys enormous popularity for his war against gangs, which dropped homicides to historic lows in El Salvador. A recent survey by the Central American University (UCA) revealed that 92% of Salvadorans did not use bitcoin in their transactions in 2024. I would say this points to an actual failed experiment, if true.

8% is quite a lot though.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did this to receive a loan from the IMF. The IMF was withholding the loan because of BTC and would not disburse it until they got rid of its status as legal tender.

Fair demand by the IMF. Presumably they require their loan to be repaid in fiat because of their internal charter. If Bitcoin adoption eventually removes El Salvador's ability to issue fiat, their loan can't be repaid.

El Salvador hasn't issued fiat since 2001. Any other presumptions as to why its a fair demand?

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#86

It's interesting and nice to see how progressive and creative El Salvador has been. Some failures are perfectly understandable when one is willing to try new things. Their approach to crime is another thing that comes to mind that was lambasted and ridiculed by the "international community" and "experts". Yet in the space of a single decade they went from murder capital of the world to safer than New Zealand (in term…

This is... a strange and jarring thing to read. My kneejerk response was that yes, they are innovating and experimenting with oppressive and corrupt governance, but that is ultimately uncharitable. A more balanced response is that while you may personally think of Bitcoin as progressive (I can't imagine why) you certainly can't claim that Bukele's El Salvador is progressive. You may like the gang crackdown, you may appreciate the suspension of habeus corpus, but you can't claim that's a progressive position.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#87
post #75
post #4

Speculative asset class fails as non-speculative legal tender class. If king for the day with a sovereign wealth fund I wouldn't forbid investment choices like this on risk grounds, I mean you need risk assets as well as boring ones, right? But I have problems with the moral quality: it's like state investing in the casino business. Monaco? works fine. Anywhere else? It's got problems. Like a lot of people, I probabl…

> sovereign wealth fund That reminds me of Hong Kong, where I used to live and which maintains a large sovereign wealth fund to ensure its currency is pegged to the US dollar. While various US think tanks ranked it well on their checklists of "economic freedom", they tended to gloss over the rest of the recipe that made it work. Not just the huge sovereign wealth fund, but also how half the housing is government-run…

> you don't really own land, you just rent it for a very long term from the government.

This is probably economically a good idea, absent something like georgist land taxes. It eliminates some or all of the incentive to speculate in land, which is of course the whole problem El Salvador ran into with bitcoin as currency.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#88
post #33

Do pro-bitcoin people still talk about goals of bitcoin being a currency that people use daily? I don't follow it closely, but that idea seems to have faded and now it's just an asset to buy and hold while it magically goes up forever.

Around the time of SegWit, the “digital gold” camp won over the “digital money” camp — who moved on to ETH, SOL, etc.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#89
post #24

While it is true that adoption remained relatively low, the reason why they abandoned it is that the IMF made it a condition for the Salvadorian government to be able to receive a 1.4B loan.

Why did they need the loan so bad they had to change their currency?

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#90
post #33

Do pro-bitcoin people still talk about goals of bitcoin being a currency that people use daily? I don't follow it closely, but that idea seems to have faded and now it's just an asset to buy and hold while it magically goes up forever.

Why would anyone spend a single BTC/sat. if they know it could be worth 10x more in a few weeks/years?

It's like those people who collect action figures and never take them out of the box. I'm not trying to knock it, but I don't think I'll ever understand it.
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