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AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

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Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#71

Post by kandesbunzler »

ben_w wrote: post #61
Bancakes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remind me of the European Silicon Valley and its greatest accomplishments?

In addition to the european groups bought by US big tech, and all the European divisions of American-parented big tech firms? A quick search reveals DeepMind, Skype, SwiftKey, Shazam, Moodstocks for the former. Bit of overlap with the latter, too, as e.g. AlphaFold is from DeepMind after getting bought. Quick look on the Apple App store also gets me Komoot (Germany), Trade Republic (Germany), Revolut (UK), Babbel (Ge…

okay so the very few examples you named have been bought up and are now part of american companies. And did you really just bring up komoot, a outdoor biking/hiking app, as a comparison to silicon valley? lmfao

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#72

Post by anticensor »

Bjartr wrote: post #28
dijksterhuis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the actual text in the ~act~ guidance states: > Exploitation of vulnerabilities of persons, manipulation and use of subliminal techniques techcrunch simplified it. from my reading, it counts if you are intentionally setting out to build a system to manipulate or deceive people . edit — here’s the actual text from the act, which makes more clear it’s about whether the deception is purposefully intended for malicious r…

Seems like even a rudimentary ML model powering ad placements would run afoul of this.

That is by design.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#73

Post by waltercool »

Oh nooo, that will stop everyone from using AI systems.

Do European politicians understand that those laws are usually dead? There is no way a law like that can be enforced except by large companies.

Also, this kind of laws would make Europeans to stay at the loser side of the AI competition as China and mostly every US corporation doesn't care about that.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#74

Post by user432678 »

joshstrange wrote: post #11
user432678 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually like it, moving to EU is currently my back-up plan when “great advances in AI” renders the rest of the world to make people loose jobs, give up privacy and overall make dystopian future a present. I’ll be happily coding my boilerplate code by hand, enjoying my boring life without AI.

The idea of the EU wouldn’t just follow suit seems kind of laughable. Or rather that the EU would be some bastion of safety from AI. If these “great advances in AI” happen then EU companies will just outsource their jobs, there will be no boilerplate/CRUD jobs.

Well, EU is not a single country. I can imagine Germany outsourcing such jobs to Poland. Oh well, I can move back “home” from UK then.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#75

Post by kandesbunzler »

waltercool wrote: post #73

Oh nooo, that will stop everyone from using AI systems. Do European politicians understand that those laws are usually dead? There is no way a law like that can be enforced except by large companies. Also, this kind of laws would make Europeans to stay at the loser side of the AI competition as China and mostly every US corporation doesn't care about that.

European politicians dont understand anything. We are led by utter morons. And redditors here complain about trump, I'd much rather have him than these mouthbreathers we have.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#76

Post by ben_w »

kandesbunzler wrote: post #71
ben_w wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to the european groups bought by US big tech, and all the European divisions of American-parented big tech firms? A quick search reveals DeepMind, Skype, SwiftKey, Shazam, Moodstocks for the former. Bit of overlap with the latter, too, as e.g. AlphaFold is from DeepMind after getting bought. Quick look on the Apple App store also gets me Komoot (Germany), Trade Republic (Germany), Revolut (UK), Babbel (Ge…

okay so the very few examples you named have been bought up and are now part of american companies. And did you really just bring up komoot, a outdoor biking/hiking app, as a comparison to silicon valley? lmfao

You seem unable or unwilling to understand:

1) why they were bought by the American companies

2) that having an American owner doesn't make them directly American or magically cause them to be in Silicon Valley

3) The country names I put in brackets

4) The location of Zürich and CERN

And instead want to focus on the fact that one specific example of a top ranked app is not all by itself an entire sector, while ignoring all the other examples *right next to it* or the fact that this was trivial to find.

To demonstrate why you're missing the wood for the trees, consider: I can accurately say "Facebook" isn't really all that important, it's just an advertising provider getting in the way of people trying to talk to each other — but that it isn't all of Silicon Valley all by itself doesn't mean its headquarters are not relevant as an example of "Silicon Valley".

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#77

Post by mattnewton »

kandesbunzler wrote: post #75
waltercool wrote: post #73

Oh nooo, that will stop everyone from using AI systems. Do European politicians understand that those laws are usually dead? There is no way a law like that can be enforced except by large companies. Also, this kind of laws would make Europeans to stay at the loser side of the AI competition as China and mostly every US corporation doesn't care about that.

European politicians dont understand anything. We are led by utter morons. And redditors here complain about trump, I'd much rather have him than these mouthbreathers we have.

not to derail us into politics, but with Trump's team I'd take that trade offer for almost any EU nation's representatives in a heartbeat, if for no other reason than they would respect the process and take years to break what the US is now breaking in days.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#78

Post by Ajedi32 »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #31
Bjartr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like even a rudimentary ML model powering ad placements would run afoul of this.

> In addition, common and legitimate commercial practices, for example in the field of advertising, that comply with the applicable law should not, in themselves, be regarded as constituting harmful manipulative AI-enabled practices. https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/recital/29/

Broadly speaking, I feel whenever you have to build into a law specific cave outs for perfectly innocuous behavior that would otherwise be illegal under the law as written, it's not a very well thought out law.

Either the behavior in question is actually bad in which case there shouldn't be exceptions, or there's actually nothing inherently wrong with it in which case you have misidentified the actual problem and are probably needlessly criminalizing a huge swathe of normal behavior beyond just the one exception you happened to think of.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#79

Post by pessimizer »

troupo wrote: post #20
_heimdall wrote: post #5

What I don't see here is how the EU is actually defining what is and is not considered AI. > AI that manipulates a person’s decisions subliminally or deceptively. That can be a hugely broad category that covers any algorithmic feed or advertising platform. Or is this limited specifically to LLMs, as OpenAI has so successfully convinced us that LLMs really are Aai and previous ML tools weren't?

> What I don't see here is how the EU is actually defining what is and is not considered AI. Because instead of reading the source, you're reading a sensationalist article. > That can be a hugely broad category that covers any algorithmic feed or advertising platform. Again, read the EU AI Act. It's not like it's hidden, or hasn't been available for several years already. ---- We're going to get a repeat of GDPR aren…

> Again, read the EU AI Act. It's not like it's hidden, or hasn't been available for several years already.

You could point out a specific section or page number, instead of wasting everyone's time. The vast majority of people who have an interest in this subject do not have a strong enough interest to do what you have claim to have done.

You could have shared, right here, the knowledge that came from that reading. At least a hundred interested people who would have come across the pointing out of this clear definition within the act in your comment will now instead continue ignorantly making decisions you disagree with. Victory?

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#80

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

Bjartr wrote: post #28
dijksterhuis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the actual text in the ~act~ guidance states: > Exploitation of vulnerabilities of persons, manipulation and use of subliminal techniques techcrunch simplified it. from my reading, it counts if you are intentionally setting out to build a system to manipulate or deceive people . edit — here’s the actual text from the act, which makes more clear it’s about whether the deception is purposefully intended for malicious r…

Seems like even a rudimentary ML model powering ad placements would run afoul of this.

Even ads without ML would run afoul of this
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