Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

dezeen.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 273 posts

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#71

Post by tsumnia »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #47
s1artibartfast wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what subcultures comes to mind for you. I havent finished my coffee, but and drawing a blank on cultural interests that cant be commodified.

Funny that no one yet mentioned the elephant in the room given that this is HN: Hacker and FOSS culture. Of course there are attempts to commercialize it, but people are naturally resistant.

I sort of disagree, as we've seen a significant increase in small scope tools like the FlipperZero, Arduinos, and Raspberry Pis. Each one has a slew of shields/extensions/whatever that subculture calls their plug and play option.

That isn't to say the groups are mindless sheep or naturally resistant; just pointing out that the space does have some commercialization happening.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#73

Post by s1artibartfast »

boerseth wrote: post #48
s1artibartfast wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what subcultures comes to mind for you. I havent finished my coffee, but and drawing a blank on cultural interests that cant be commodified.

Dancing is a good example, though not perfect. It's hard to convince a club to have a salsa/bachata/tango/swing centered evening, because the interested crowd actually comes to dance and socialize. It is much more profitable and easy to turn down the lights and up the music and get customers that buy alcohol. Not to say that dancing is not commodifiable. People make a living offering classes, outfits, shoes, and trav…

I think it's important to distinguish Acts which individuals perform from the culture around those Acts.

Commodification of a subculture is spoken about as if it is a binary a purity test but that isn't reflective of reality. You can pay $500 to watch some aged punk rockers perform in an arena, but that doesn't mean that there isn't an illegal Warehouse show going on at the same time in the same city.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#75

Post by snapcaster »

flocciput wrote: post #62
BarryMilo wrote: post #20

I am a sci-fi nerd and I also found Neuromancer incredibly boring, but that's probably because it introduced so many concepts that others went on to refine. I'm not a fan if present-ish day sci-fi though, reality is depressing enough as it is.

I felt the same way about Hyperion by Dan Simmons. Went in not knowing or caring when it was written and some themes felt played out, but realizing it was 1989 cast it in a totally different light for me. Weird how that works.

Man i was so disappointed by hyperion. felt like they didn't really go anywhere satisfying with the premise

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#76

Post by tsumnia »

Palomides wrote: post #6

there are still subcultures: the ones unpalatable to corporate interests; ones around topics that are illegal, very politically fringe, or centered on weird sex stuff

They don't need to be obscene - I think a good example would be non-sparring martial arts like Aikido or Tai Chi.

There isn't really an incentive to pay to watch top performers in the arts demonstrate technique beyond a handful of people wanting DVDs. There's zero stakes because you aren't competing against another person to be "the best". BUT, the physically can also be a turn off to many people. The joke I was taught was "to make a small fortune, start with a large one and open a dojo".

The martial art business model therefore is pretty small scale - kids classes, seminar fees, clothing and equipment sales, that's about it. But none of those things are really going to make you super wealthy because the non-competing aspect removes a lot of that business-oriented focus.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#77

Post by p3rls »

pc86 wrote: post #44
holsta wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascists chase ideals / purity, so put a lot of effort into their uniforms, for one. Places like Ordensburg Vogelsang, where they trained Nazi officers, explains how they cut themselves to look experienced in battle, among other things. The Wikipedia page doesn't do the place justice. It's terrifying to visit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordensburg_Vogelsang Fascists have strong opinions on "correct" art: https://e…

What does any of that have to do with the article?

Comrade, such "me no frego" apathy is fascistic.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#78

Post by ecshafer »

flocciput wrote: post #62
BarryMilo wrote: post #20

I am a sci-fi nerd and I also found Neuromancer incredibly boring, but that's probably because it introduced so many concepts that others went on to refine. I'm not a fan if present-ish day sci-fi though, reality is depressing enough as it is.

I felt the same way about Hyperion by Dan Simmons. Went in not knowing or caring when it was written and some themes felt played out, but realizing it was 1989 cast it in a totally different light for me. Weird how that works.

The first Hyperion book was great, Canterbury Tales in Space is a great concept and well done. The full series, I think Simmons couldn't really find a good satisfying ending.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#79

Post by rout39574 »

sporkydistance wrote: post #66
BarryMilo wrote: post #20

I am a sci-fi nerd and I also found Neuromancer incredibly boring, but that's probably because it introduced so many concepts that others went on to refine. I'm not a fan if present-ish day sci-fi though, reality is depressing enough as it is.

I think with books like Neuromancer it is a matter of "when" you read it. If you read it today, it seems trite, like Snow Crash. If you read Neuromancer in 1984, it was mind-blowing. Same thing with Snow Crash in 1992. These books were decades ahead of their time. Neuromancer is more like PKDick, in that they are adult-themed books more about personal problems with sci-fi on the side, and it is actually part one of a…

Oh come on; "Jack the sound barrier; bring the noise."... That still rocks, or slaps, or whatever.

And you can't tell me you don't shiver if someone says "I'm sure he'll listen to reason.."

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#80

Post by bluefirebrand »

namaria wrote: post #50
protonbob wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are still consuming less natural resources and someone is sharing in their wealth. I don't see the problem here.

Any demand pull will ultimately increase consumption of resources at the end. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism. The only thing that works is consuming less. Pretending like there is a way to do it only opens up avenues for guilty-free consuming.

> There's no ethical consumption under capitalism

I've seen this catchphrase thrown around a lot online, but I've never seen anyone explain how consumption becomes any more ethical under any other system without leading to other systemic problems

"Consume less" seems to imply that any consumption is unethical by default. If that's the case, then the only way to consume ethically is by minimizing consumption

This seems like a reasonable stance, but it leads to other problems. Who gets to decide how much is enough?

If each individual decides for themselves, then we clearly have a problem because some people will never be satisfied. If everyone lets them continue, then they will hoard resources for themselves. This is sort of the situation we're already in

However, if we have the group (community, society, country, whatever) decide "how much is enough", then we have to have a group mechanism for making that decision, like a council, or government department

Then we need another group mechanism to enforce it, police, courts, etc. "Ethical consumption" becomes very authoritarian very quickly

If the idea is "We could have ethical consumption if people would just consume less" then you don't even have a starting point because "people will never just

So feel free to consume less if you think that's more ethical. That's what I try and do, myself. But I know that I cannot simply expect others to do the same, and I also don't really have any interest in policing how much others are allowed to have

Post reply on HN