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Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

theguardian.com

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Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#51

Post by tokioyoyo »

dcchambers wrote: post #20

I really thought the major "rust belt" cities were going to blow up after the big COVID WFH push. Why spend 2-10x as much to live in one of four coastal metros when you could get the same pay while living somewhere much cheaper. The biggest issue with these cities in the last 50 years has been a lack of high paying jobs and WFH tech jobs essentially negate that issue. There are a ton of American cities that have fall…

Generally, people like to have fun and will pay premiums to live in cities where stuff happens. Cheap housing and money aren’t the only motivators, otherwise we would have a different landscape.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#52

Post by pc86 »

lesuorac wrote: post #25
lotsofpulp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems evident that people, by and large, don’t like freezing temperatures.

That and you don't get the same pay by living somewhere cheaper.

Maybe. Lots of companies don't localize their pay, or localize it based on country. Even those that do if you're comparing, for example, Pittsburgh and NYC/SF, you're unlikely to come out ahead in NYC/SF especially after you factor in state income tax.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#53

Post by pc86 »

yawgmoth wrote: post #15

In my experience, companies based in Michigan pay 20-50k lower and do not have staff/principal roles available. You have to find a remote role to stay competitive wage wise. Some companies are not willing to pay as much for Michigan workers as they are NY/SF/elsewhere workers, too. I think the reality is Columbus and Chicago are growing quicker than Detroit. The relative increase here might be "buzzing" but in absolu…

Don't you think the delta in cost of living between Michigan and NYC/SF is a lot more than $50k/yr?

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#54

Post by kccqzy »

arrowsmith wrote: post #42
nradov wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance premium increases have killed a lot of the housing cost advantage that Florida used to have.

Why are the premiums going up? Hurricanes?

Many large insurance companies leaving Florida. Their last-resort insurance, Citizens Property Insurance Corp, is perpetually one bad hurricane away from insolvency. Well technically they cannot be insolvent but they are allowed a premium surcharge on everyone, including those who do not have their insurance.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#55

Post by jt2190 »

dcchambers wrote: post #20

I really thought the major "rust belt" cities were going to blow up after the big COVID WFH push. Why spend 2-10x as much to live in one of four coastal metros when you could get the same pay while living somewhere much cheaper. The biggest issue with these cities in the last 50 years has been a lack of high paying jobs and WFH tech jobs essentially negate that issue. There are a ton of American cities that have fall…

Housing is cheap because the job market is poor. Should enough remote workers choose to relocate to the same rust-belt city we’d see higher housing prices in that city. The challenge is that rust-belt cities are just not desirable enough for enough remote workers to reverse the decades of decline. Furthermore, there is no reason that remote workers would cluster by geography other than fear of loosing their remote job and having to return to office, so I don’t think remote workers will be able to turn the tide of the rust-belt.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#56

Post by nilamo »

cobertos wrote: post #18
llm_nerd wrote: post #17

Unfortunate timing for this to front page here given that Detroit and Michigan in general are going to endure some extremely rough times in the coming months and years. Detroits revival just took some direct hits.

How do you mean? A lot of things have stayed pretty consistent here over the years. What are you expecting?

Detroit and Windsor are one city, with a country border down the middle. The new tarrifs will be really bad for both cities.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#57

Post by pc86 »

whaleofatw2022 wrote: post #13
toyg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech company I work for is listed on the NASDAQ and headquartered in Birmingham, a few minutes out of Detroit - originally it was in Rochester. There is a lot of money in Michigan. The main issue I can see is that you have to be in the right circles - there is definitely a class divide in the state, and it's pretty brutal.

Yeah class divides are weird in Southeast MI. At smaller shops it leads to a lot of hubris from management. I've worked at more than one shop where circles of UofM grads insist on outsourcing everything new and having in-house employees only do maintenance or minor features. If you didn't go to UofM your opinion is worthless. Leads to incredibly toxic shops and terrible software.

Which is kind of funny since you're talking about UofM, not Stanford or MIT. It's a good school but there are literally hundreds of good schools in the US.

In my experience lots of folks educated at top top tier institutions are pretty humble about it, and acknowledge places where other institutions are as good or better than their alma mater. A coworker of mine recently got his MBA from Penn which is not only Ivy League but consistently ranked top 2-3 MBA programs in the country, and currently tied with Stanford for #1 according to USNWR. He never brings it up, doesn't really talk about it much when it does get brought up, and I don't think I've ever heard him criticize anyone's education or experience unfairly (we've sat on several hiring panels together).

The problem is when you go to a good-not-great school. If the top 10 schools for a particular program are considered "Tier 1" the people who went to #15 or #20 are going to be absolutely horrible to work with. It's like they think they need to prove they could have gone to a better school but didn't for whatever reason.

I avoided this trap by only going to small schools nobody has ever heard of.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#58

Post by BobaFloutist »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #51
dcchambers wrote: post #20

I really thought the major "rust belt" cities were going to blow up after the big COVID WFH push. Why spend 2-10x as much to live in one of four coastal metros when you could get the same pay while living somewhere much cheaper. The biggest issue with these cities in the last 50 years has been a lack of high paying jobs and WFH tech jobs essentially negate that issue. There are a ton of American cities that have fall…

Generally, people like to have fun and will pay premiums to live in cities where stuff happens. Cheap housing and money aren’t the only motivators, otherwise we would have a different landscape.

That said, cheap housing/warehouse space often leads to an explosion of art and music in sufficiently populated cities.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#59

Post by jetrink »

arrowsmith wrote: post #42
nradov wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance premium increases have killed a lot of the housing cost advantage that Florida used to have.

Why are the premiums going up? Hurricanes?

Increasing hurricane risk yes, but also a dysfunctional insurance market. There's a business model where roofing companies will approach homeowners telling them they have hurricane damage and are eligible to receive a free roof. The hurricane might passed through years before, but any damage that was overlooked is still the responsibility of the insurance company. The homeowners are surprised to learn that their roof has damage, since they haven't noticed anything wrong (and there is in fact no damage), but free is free, so they sign the contract. The roofing company files a claim, the insurance company denies it, the roofing company sues, and since a lawsuit costs more than a roof, the insurance company backs down. Then after this has happened repeatedly, the insurance company raises their rates or leaves the state.

Re: Detroit’s revival takes shape after decades of decay

#60

Post by wing-_-nuts »

RALaBarge wrote: post #4

30 miles West in Ann Arbor, there are tech gigs but not tons of them. If you are apart of the University of Michigan, there are tons of opportunities via the college and the groups there, but if not there aren't tons of openings. Detroit itself is an amazing city, but it isn't a tech hub, nor is it for everyone. It is the shell of the automotive companies that started to move their operations of out the country in th…

I've actually looked at Ann Arbor before as I adore college towns and was looking at trying to find one in the great lakes region as a forever / retirement destination. Given you're from the area would you have any others to recommend?

Things I'm mainly looking for:

* A climate change refuge

* No 'lake effect' snow

* Continuing education opportunities (i.e. auditing classes as a retiree)

* A good public / uni library system

* Walkable density

* Reasonable cost of living (yea, this is gonna be higher in college towns)

I realize that moving to the great lakes region and wanting to avoid snow are naturally in conflict. I have a disability so I'm just bearing in mind my balance and ability to shovel snow in my old age.

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