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Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

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Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#21

Post by s1artibartfast »

torginus wrote: post #7
Palomides wrote: post #6

there are still subcultures: the ones unpalatable to corporate interests; ones around topics that are illegal, very politically fringe, or centered on weird sex stuff

I would also add things that are unprofitable and/or participating in them requires a high degree of personal investment which can't be substituted with money. Which describes a lot of things if you think about it.

Curious what subcultures comes to mind for you. I havent finished my coffee, but and drawing a blank on cultural interests that cant be commodified.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#22

Post by moomin »

RiverCrochet wrote: post #9
detourdog wrote: post #8

Dumpster diving is one of those sub-cultures that is hard to commodify. One of my kids prefers the ethics of dumpster diving. What a privilege.

Someone, somewhere out there is selling designer or artisanal-crafted dumpster diving shoes "for the very best comfort and agility during your homebrew solid-waste recovery activities."

U2 literally employ a stylist who buys their clothes from second hand clothes markets. An incredibly expensive way of supporting a “no consumption” aesthetic.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#23

Post by Sharlin »

"One may dye their hair green and wear their grandma’s coat all they want. Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would critique capital end up reinforcing it instead."

—Joyce Messier in Disco Elysium

Probably inspired by Mark Fisher:

"The power of capitalist realism derives in part from the way that capitalism subsumes and consumes all of previous history: one effect of its 'system of equivalence' which can assign all cultural objects, whether they are religious iconography, pornography, or Das Kapital, a monetary value. Walk around the British Museum, where you see objects torn from their lifeworlds and assembled as if on the deck of some Predator spacecraft, and you have a powerful image of this process at work. In the conversion of practices and rituals into merely aesthetic objects, the beliefs of previous cultures are objectively ironized, transformed into artifacts. Capitalist realism is therefore not a particular type of realism; it is more like realism in itself."

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#24

Post by drdrek »

Firstly, there are many tiny subcultures that by definition you will not know about if you are not part of them. Secondly, I think that there is a hidden assumption in western audience that sub\counter culture are universally good, So when we see negative ones they do not register as counter cultures. The Man-o-sphere, N-th level gender advocates, Fascists, National Purity, Marxists, Libertarians. If anything there is so much fragmentation that we have fractured to endless stream of sub cultures that can no longer talk to each other. There is no longer any cultural center to even deviate from when everyone lives in a personalized media landscape.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#25

Post by protonbob »

moomin wrote: post #22
RiverCrochet wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone, somewhere out there is selling designer or artisanal-crafted dumpster diving shoes "for the very best comfort and agility during your homebrew solid-waste recovery activities."

U2 literally employ a stylist who buys their clothes from second hand clothes markets. An incredibly expensive way of supporting a “no consumption” aesthetic.

They are still consuming less natural resources and someone is sharing in their wealth. I don't see the problem here.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#26

Post by selimthegrim »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #21
torginus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also add things that are unprofitable and/or participating in them requires a high degree of personal investment which can't be substituted with money. Which describes a lot of things if you think about it.

Curious what subcultures comes to mind for you. I havent finished my coffee, but and drawing a blank on cultural interests that cant be commodified.

Carnival.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#27

Post by jhbadger »

Sharlin wrote: post #23

"One may dye their hair green and wear their grandma’s coat all they want. Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would critique capital end up reinforcing it instead." —Joyce Messier in Disco Elysium Probably inspired by Mark Fisher: "The power of capitalist realism derives in part from the way that capitalism subsumes and consumes all of previous history: one effect of its 'sys…

That's a pretty weird description of the British Museum. Yes, I know people can (and do) criticize the collection they have as the spoils of colonialism, but in no way do they present their collection as "merely aesthetic objects" -- they do explain what the artifacts are in terms of the cultures that created them.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#28

Post by technofiend »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #21
torginus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also add things that are unprofitable and/or participating in them requires a high degree of personal investment which can't be substituted with money. Which describes a lot of things if you think about it.

Curious what subcultures comes to mind for you. I havent finished my coffee, but and drawing a blank on cultural interests that cant be commodified.

Not sure how mainstream furries are. Sure, they have conventions and whatnot but do you expect to see one on a box of cereal anytime soon? Probably not.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#29

Post by TeMPOraL »

selimthegrim wrote: post #26
s1artibartfast wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what subcultures comes to mind for you. I havent finished my coffee, but and drawing a blank on cultural interests that cant be commodified.

Carnival.

You mean the traditional Month of Partying? Nah, that's been thoroughly commercialized already.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#30

Post by icegreentea2 »

jhbadger wrote: post #27
Sharlin wrote: post #23

"One may dye their hair green and wear their grandma’s coat all they want. Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would critique capital end up reinforcing it instead." —Joyce Messier in Disco Elysium Probably inspired by Mark Fisher: "The power of capitalist realism derives in part from the way that capitalism subsumes and consumes all of previous history: one effect of its 'sys…

That's a pretty weird description of the British Museum. Yes, I know people can (and do) criticize the collection they have as the spoils of colonialism, but in no way do they present their collection as "merely aesthetic objects" -- they do explain what the artifacts are in terms of the cultures that created them.

I believe "merely aesthetic objects" in this case should be interpreted as "dead objects". The very word "artifact" signifies the distinction.

These objects were once alive - they were parts of active interactions. Now they are dead and ossified.

This is the difference between your album CDs when you actually listened to them, and then when you put them on a display case on the wall.

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