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Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

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Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#71

Post by hombre_fatal »

keiferski wrote: post #63
purplethinking wrote: post #54

I've done the whole spaced repetition and Anki thing, realized that if it's boring, you won't learn as well, and you won't stick with it in the long term, once you miss a week and suddenly you have 863 reps to get through to catch up. Instead, read stuff you're interested, apply it in your work, learn mostly Just In Time for when you need it. Learn by doing.

Strongly disagree. The worst thing that’s happened to educational theory is the idea that everything needs to be fun and exciting to be worth doing. Some stuff is worth doing because it works, even if it’s a little boring. SRS is one of those things.

If an approach is so boring that you don't do it, then what does it matter how effective it might be?

Either find a way to make it less boring or switch up the approach. Whatever gets you to keep a habit is what's important.

Same with any habit we want to develop. Cooking. Exercise. Language learning. Building software. Meet people.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#72

Post by runarberg »

purplethinking wrote: post #54

I've done the whole spaced repetition and Anki thing, realized that if it's boring, you won't learn as well, and you won't stick with it in the long term, once you miss a week and suddenly you have 863 reps to get through to catch up. Instead, read stuff you're interested, apply it in your work, learn mostly Just In Time for when you need it. Learn by doing.

I think the mistake here is simply to many new cards a day. If you miss a week and have 863 reps, you definitely are going way too fast. You shouldn’t have to spend more than 5-20 minutes daily going over your review, and if you miss a week you shouldn’t need more than two or three half hour sessions to catch up.

I think there are diminishing returns as well by having to many daily new cards, as there is only so much you can commit into memory every day. So you will probably end up having terrible recall as well (which further adds to your reps).

I’m using Anki to learn Japanese. I actually go a step further in taking it slow as I’m still on my N5 vocab (first 1000 words) after 9 months of learning. I think it will be another 9 months before I can read stuff I‘m interested in in Japanese (which will probably be Go books).

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#73

Post by hombre_fatal »

orzig wrote: post #10

I have been wondering about this in the context of being ready for work in the age of LLM‘s. What nobody can deny is that they memorize information at a superhuman level, so it might reduce the value of having done that myself. On the other hand, “couldn’t you just google that“has been an erroneous retort to the value of space repetition for decades, during which I’ve gotten a lot of value out of doing. has been a er…

It seems pretty easy to illuminate this question once you consider concrete examples.

For example, neither google nor an LLM replaces the utility of building your own vocabulary so that you can express yourself in a foreign language when you're in convo with someone.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#74

Post by keiferski »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #71
keiferski wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. The worst thing that’s happened to educational theory is the idea that everything needs to be fun and exciting to be worth doing. Some stuff is worth doing because it works, even if it’s a little boring. SRS is one of those things.

If an approach is so boring that you don't do it, then what does it matter how effective it might be? Either find a way to make it less boring or switch up the approach. Whatever gets you to keep a habit is what's important. Same with any habit we want to develop. Cooking. Exercise. Language learning. Building software. Meet people.

Because realistically doing your Anki cards should take 10-30 minutes a day, maximum. If you can’t slog through 30 minutes of learning vocabulary/etc. then the thing you’re learning isn’t very important to you. SRS isn’t about doing flash cards for hours on end, it’s about determining the maximum retention rate while doing the minimum amount of work.

Even then, personally I don’t find Anki that boring at all. But I make custom cards that include audio, images, and other items.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#75

Post by purplethinking »

runarberg wrote: post #72
purplethinking wrote: post #54

I've done the whole spaced repetition and Anki thing, realized that if it's boring, you won't learn as well, and you won't stick with it in the long term, once you miss a week and suddenly you have 863 reps to get through to catch up. Instead, read stuff you're interested, apply it in your work, learn mostly Just In Time for when you need it. Learn by doing.

I think the mistake here is simply to many new cards a day. If you miss a week and have 863 reps, you definitely are going way too fast. You shouldn’t have to spend more than 5-20 minutes daily going over your review, and if you miss a week you shouldn’t need more than two or three half hour sessions to catch up. I think there are diminishing returns as well by having to many daily new cards, as there is only so much…

I used it for language learning and CS among other things. The thing is, life gets busy. Suddenly you have a kid or two. Spaced Repetition falls into the same category of things that people in their 20s do because they have too much time, like using intricate note taking systems, journaling, training for triathlons and being really into artisanal coffee.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#76

Post by frereubu »

keiferski wrote: post #74
hombre_fatal wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an approach is so boring that you don't do it, then what does it matter how effective it might be? Either find a way to make it less boring or switch up the approach. Whatever gets you to keep a habit is what's important. Same with any habit we want to develop. Cooking. Exercise. Language learning. Building software. Meet people.

Because realistically doing your Anki cards should take 10-30 minutes a day, maximum. If you can’t slog through 30 minutes of learning vocabulary/etc. then the thing you’re learning isn’t very important to you. SRS isn’t about doing flash cards for hours on end, it’s about determining the maximum retention rate while doing the minimum amount of work. Even then, personally I don’t find Anki that boring at all. But I m…

GP: If an approach is so boring that you don't do it... Either find a way to make it less boring...

You: But I make custom cards that include audio, images, and other items.

I think you're agreeing!

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#77

Post by hombre_fatal »

keiferski wrote: post #74
hombre_fatal wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an approach is so boring that you don't do it, then what does it matter how effective it might be? Either find a way to make it less boring or switch up the approach. Whatever gets you to keep a habit is what's important. Same with any habit we want to develop. Cooking. Exercise. Language learning. Building software. Meet people.

Because realistically doing your Anki cards should take 10-30 minutes a day, maximum. If you can’t slog through 30 minutes of learning vocabulary/etc. then the thing you’re learning isn’t very important to you. SRS isn’t about doing flash cards for hours on end, it’s about determining the maximum retention rate while doing the minimum amount of work. Even then, personally I don’t find Anki that boring at all. But I m…

> If you can’t slog through 30 minutes of learning vocabulary/etc. then the thing you’re learning isn’t very important to you

This obviously isn't the case if there's an alternative approach that does work for you.

> Even then, personally I don’t find Anki that boring at all.

Right, and you're having trouble picturing how something you get for free (or take for granted) has a cost for others. Isn't it obvious?

Running 10km a day is a great way to stay in cardiovascular shape. If you like running, it might be a great daily habit for you. But would you say other people must not care about their body just because they're not willing to run 10km, but they are willing to bicycle, swim, or kickbox daily?

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#78

Post by keiferski »

frereubu wrote: post #76
keiferski wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because realistically doing your Anki cards should take 10-30 minutes a day, maximum. If you can’t slog through 30 minutes of learning vocabulary/etc. then the thing you’re learning isn’t very important to you. SRS isn’t about doing flash cards for hours on end, it’s about determining the maximum retention rate while doing the minimum amount of work. Even then, personally I don’t find Anki that boring at all. But I m…

GP: If an approach is so boring that you don't do it... Either find a way to make it less boring... You: But I make custom cards that include audio, images, and other items. I think you're agreeing!

Not really if the solution is to stop using SRS. In my experience the benefits are as good as the hype.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#79

Post by colin_jack »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #71
keiferski wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. The worst thing that’s happened to educational theory is the idea that everything needs to be fun and exciting to be worth doing. Some stuff is worth doing because it works, even if it’s a little boring. SRS is one of those things.

If an approach is so boring that you don't do it, then what does it matter how effective it might be? Either find a way to make it less boring or switch up the approach. Whatever gets you to keep a habit is what's important. Same with any habit we want to develop. Cooking. Exercise. Language learning. Building software. Meet people.

> If an approach is so boring that you don't do it, then what does it matter how effective it might be?

Yeah true, but an obvious argument is that this is where discipline comes in. If you are one of the people Anki works for, then you have to find the level of discipline required to stick with it.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#80

Post by runarberg »

purplethinking wrote: post #75
runarberg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the mistake here is simply to many new cards a day. If you miss a week and have 863 reps, you definitely are going way too fast. You shouldn’t have to spend more than 5-20 minutes daily going over your review, and if you miss a week you shouldn’t need more than two or three half hour sessions to catch up. I think there are diminishing returns as well by having to many daily new cards, as there is only so much…

I used it for language learning and CS among other things. The thing is, life gets busy. Suddenly you have a kid or two. Spaced Repetition falls into the same category of things that people in their 20s do because they have too much time, like using intricate note taking systems, journaling, training for triathlons and being really into artisanal coffee.

I guess it just boils down to what you want to do with your spare time. You find time for HN. Me, I can find time for 20-60 min a day studying Japanese (of which 5-20 is in Anki). I also find time for 20-60 min a day playing go so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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