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Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency

reuters.com

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Re: Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency

#141

Post by mcphage »

rayiner wrote: post #131
heartbreak wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so embarrassed on your behalf, Rayiner.

I don’t know you, but I’m embarrassed on your behalf that you seem to support the idea that federal employees should bring their own ideologies to the workplace to frustrate the duly elected executive. It’s openly advocating a soft coup.

I love the whole “my guy did a coup so I’m going to call everything I don’t like a coup to minimize what he did” thing you’ve got going on. Tres chic. And in this case, it’s… the idea that federal employees don’t completely change everything every 4 years to assuage the ego of a moron who thinks he’s king.

Re: Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency

#142

Post by cherry_tree »

dang wrote: post #136
cherry_tree wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many users? Is it the same group of users flagging every political post? You seem to agree with their take openly, are you flagging these as well?

I agree with the "take" that this article isn't going to get discussed substantively and thoughtfully on HN. You needn't look far to see why—the current thread demonstrates it. The commenters insisting that this is the wrong call don't seem to have fully taken in the intended purpose of this site, because they're actually making a case in favor of the flags, not against them. Btw, it's not true that every political p…

Indeed many of the top comments are about how this thread will inevitably be flagged but continuing on to give substantive commentary. Is this not a sign that the system is not producing the desired results? That good contributors see a good topic and give up on it isn’t a sign that the topic is inherently not worth discussing.

This is the culture HN is building not one magically produced by the topics themselves, and I think the fact the that the only moderator on the site agrees that all political discussion is not worth having contributes to the quality of political discussion on the site.

I think you do a great job overall dang, but I think politics is inherently in an area that highlights the downsides of having a single moderator at the helm. I get wanting to avoid policing political thought but does shutting it all down produce the best community? Does allowing power users to disable commentary on certain topics create the community you are trying to build?

Re: Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency

#143

Post by dang »

cherry_tree wrote: post #142
dang wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the "take" that this article isn't going to get discussed substantively and thoughtfully on HN. You needn't look far to see why—the current thread demonstrates it. The commenters insisting that this is the wrong call don't seem to have fully taken in the intended purpose of this site, because they're actually making a case in favor of the flags, not against them. Btw, it's not true that every political p…

Indeed many of the top comments are about how this thread will inevitably be flagged but continuing on to give substantive commentary. Is this not a sign that the system is not producing the desired results? That good contributors see a good topic and give up on it isn’t a sign that the topic is inherently not worth discussing. This is the culture HN is building not one magically produced by the topics themselves, an…

We're far from "shutting it all down"; that's what those links in my GP comment are about. It's a question of which stories/threads have the best chance at supporting a thoughtful discussion.

Re: Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency

#144

Post by j2kun »

dang wrote: post #135
mostlysimilar wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the ability to unflag stories. This is critically important. Please do the right thing here.

Many stories that (correctly) get flagged on HN are critically important, far more important than anything which does appear on the front page. There's a simple reason for this: if importance were the high-order bit, then HN would be a current affairs site. In fact its mandate is something quite different, as everyone here should know—see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and (for endless elaboration o…

The problem is that there's no counter-action to a group of dedicated users who want to kill a story killing a story.

Re: Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency

#145

Post by dang »

j2kun wrote: post #144
dang wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many stories that (correctly) get flagged on HN are critically important, far more important than anything which does appear on the front page. There's a simple reason for this: if importance were the high-order bit, then HN would be a current affairs site. In fact its mandate is something quite different, as everyone here should know—see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and (for endless elaboration o…

The problem is that there's no counter-action to a group of dedicated users who want to kill a story killing a story.

Moderator review is a counter-action, especially when we turn off the flags on a story. The problem is that we don't (and can't) do that often enough to satisfy everyone.

Re: Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency

#147

Post by telotortium »

Hizonner wrote: post #54
rayiner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Turns out the job of the President is to faithfully execute the laws . And the laws have a hell of a lot to say about how things get done in the government. It is solidly settled constitutional law that those laws have to be obeyed. The President also doesn't get to enforce traffic laws by random summary executions... which is where the idiotic "unitary executive" nonsense would land you if you, you know, actually th…

> The President also doesn't get to enforce traffic laws by random summary executions

- Congress has not passed laws against traffic violations (well, except in D.C., federal land, etc.).

- Even when they have, they have not designated the punishment to be execution.

- Even if the violators are federal employees, the executive doesn't have the power to summarily punish their violations by anything worse than firing the employee, even under the unitary executive theory. The executive can't levy any criminal punishment on their own. (They have since FDR been able to levy civil penalties in certain cases, but rulings like SEC v. Jarkesy are limiting that power.)

So your hypothetical makes no sense, even under the broadest interpretation of the "unitary executive" theory. What Trump, Musk, and DOGE want to do is to make it as easy to fire and discipline the federal workforce as it is for a company executive to do the same to a company. We'll see how far it goes I suppose. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a federal civil service reform bill introduced soon to at least allow the executive to put any civil service employee on indefinite paid leave - that would allow Congress to set conditions on federal employment that don't prevent the executive branch from implementing its agenda.

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