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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#81

Post by none_to_remain »

zozbot234 wrote: post #67
romaaeterna wrote: post #64

These people? https://nypost.com/2025/01/30/us-news/killing-of-border-patr... Is the appellation in the headline, "radical vegan trans cult," a true description? > Authorities now say the guns used by Youngblut and Bauckholt are owned by a person of interest in other murders — and connected to a mysterious cult of transgender “geniuses” who follow a trans leader named Jack LaSota, also known by the alias “Ziz.” Is al…

The cult does seem to target people who identify as trans - OP has some discussion of this. Not sure if that justifies calling it a "radical vegan trans cult" though. Trans folks seem to be overrepresented in rationalist communities generally, at least on the West Coast - but there may be all sorts of valid reasons for that.

None of the murder victims I'm aware of were transgender?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#82

Post by mwkaufma »

falcor84 wrote: post #72
mwkaufma wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops are fundamentally lazy.

Unfortunately it seems that a cop's laziness is inversely correlated with the melanin in the suspect's skin.

Race as a surrogate for guilt is entirely-consistent with the lazy ethos.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#83

Post by billjings »

none_to_remain wrote: post #81
zozbot234 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cult does seem to target people who identify as trans - OP has some discussion of this. Not sure if that justifies calling it a "radical vegan trans cult" though. Trans folks seem to be overrepresented in rationalist communities generally, at least on the West Coast - but there may be all sorts of valid reasons for that.

None of the murder victims I'm aware of were transgender?

Target as in, target for recruitment into the group.

The targets for their victims seem chosen...as retaliation to defend their understanding of their own interests.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#84

Post by dang »

After puzzling over the threads on this head-spinning story, my sense is that maybe the most neutral thing to do is re-up this submission of a news report and merge most of the comments hither.

The other recent threads are/were:

The Zizians (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42898323

The Zizians and the rationalist death cult - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42897871

Suspects in 2 murder cases shared connection to 'Zizian' rationalist group - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42849281

Edit: I guess we can have the current thread be about the recent events and keep https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42897871 for discussing / arguing about the generic aspects. Sorry for the complexity but in this case it appears to be essential not accidental.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#85

Post by dang »

rdtsc wrote: post #2

> self-described “vegan Sith” ideology Had it not been in a serious article I would have believed it had to a parody or a joke of some sort. “We are just like Darth Maul, but we like salads and drink soy milk instead of regular milk… and then kill people while dressed in tactical black outfits”? What is even going on? Real life now sounds like some kinda of a broken LLM hallucination.

(This was originally posted in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42849281, but we merged that thread hither)

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#86

Post by searealist »

EA-3167 wrote: post #50
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

I don't think it's so much pushing an agenda, as it is avoiding a thermonuclear hot potato of modern life. If you start talking about gender identity, everyone has STRONG opinions they feel they must share. Worse, a subset of those opinions will be fairly extreme, and you're potentially exposing yourself to harassment or worse. If you sound like you're attacking trans people, that's going to end badly. If you sound l…

> If you sound like you're attacking trans people, that's going to end badly. If you sound like you're supporting them, especially as this new US administration takes off... that's going to end badly.

That’s not true: 99% percent of news outlets have absolutely no fear supporting trans activism.

It’s trivial to find hundreds of such cases from sfgate with a google search.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#87

Post by zozbot234 »

nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

> almost all the members of this group are trans.

The Zizians.info site (linked by one of the HN posts re: this story) mentions that the Zizians did target people who identified as transgender for indoctrination, so this is not really surprising. People who are undergoing this kind of stress and marginalization may well be more vulnerable to such tactics.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#88

Post by dang »

iamthepieman wrote: post #59

This story happened in my backyard. The shootout was about 40 minutes from me but Youngblut and Felix Bauckholt were reported by a hotel clerk dressed in tactical gear and sporting firearms in a hotel a few blocks from me. Weird to see a community I followed show up so close to home and negatively like this. I always just read LW and appreciated some of the fundamentals that this group seems to have ignored. Stuff li…

(To answer that last procedural question: there have been assorted submissions, but none spent much time on the front page. More at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42901777)

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#89

Post by k8sToGo »

iamthepieman wrote: post #59

This story happened in my backyard. The shootout was about 40 minutes from me but Youngblut and Felix Bauckholt were reported by a hotel clerk dressed in tactical gear and sporting firearms in a hotel a few blocks from me. Weird to see a community I followed show up so close to home and negatively like this. I always just read LW and appreciated some of the fundamentals that this group seems to have ignored. Stuff li…

Why does a hotel clerk wear tactical gear and guns?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#90

Post by adastra22 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #87
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

> almost all the members of this group are trans. The Zizians.info site (linked by one of the HN posts re: this story) mentions that the Zizians did target people who identified as transgender for indoctrination, so this is not really surprising. People who are undergoing this kind of stress and marginalization may well be more vulnerable to such tactics.

The Ziz method of indoctrination involves convincing his minions they are trapped inside a mental framework they need to break free of. Trans people already feel trapped in a body not aligned with who they are, and are naturally susceptible to this message (and therefore natural targets for recruitment).
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