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Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

elite.bbcelite.com

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Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#21

Post by akoboldfrying »

atan2 wrote: post #5
hinkley wrote: post #3

If I were king of the forest, there would be a degree program in Comparative Coding (comparative lit for code). We don’t treat this as a creative discipline and thus we don’t spend time looking at masters, how they were successful and the ways they were just as human as anyone. Someone would get paid for writing stuff like this, same as people getting paid to write about Poe, Cummings, Hemingway, Thoreau. But I guess…

Some people do teach this type of content and do a pretty good job at it. DisplacedGamers on youtube is a great channel, Gustavo Pezzi from pikuma.com is excellent, and there is also Ben Eater also covering 6502 programming, just to name a few.

Having greatly enjoyed Ben Eater's content (especially the build-your-own-VGA!), I'll definitely check those others out. Thanks!

Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#22

Post by mrandish »

markus_zhang wrote: post #19
mrandish wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your idea, though I'm probably biased because I learned computers and computer programming starting with zero experience, zero knowledge and nothing but a 4K, sub-1 Mhz Radio Shack Color Computer. Unfortunately, in 1980 there were virtually no real instructional materials available on microcomputers. Learning consisted mostly of just trying things, typing in listings from low-budget hobbyist 'zines and compari…

Yep, and I know some instructors actually tried that (from Carnegie-Mellon): https://bobrost.com/nes/ I think it's a good idea to go further to work on more difficult retro platforms. I know teachers like LC-3 because it is simple, but I think they underestimate the devoted students.

> I think it's a good idea to go further to work on more difficult retro platforms.

Agreed, although I'm not sure platforms like Genesis, Amiga or NeoGeo would really be much more difficult for a beginner following a framework than NES. However, their increased performance, resolution and colors would be more capable of creating inspiring output.

Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#23

Post by nateglims »

markus_zhang wrote: post #12

I think Computer Architecture can be designed around legacy but fun hardwares. So instead of using some fantasy machines such as LC-3, students can directly get into the world of 6502. First semester: mostly concentrated on 6502 with a full 6502 CPU emulator as the final project. Second semester: concentrate on a real machine such as the NES. Students need to learn to improve their emulators to program in it (so, do…

I did an EE degree and the sophmore firmware course used an 8 bit PIC (or a motorola 6800 a few years before). About a third of the semester was entirely in PIC assembly, then C, then advanced stuff in C. I think your idea is pretty viable, and sounds more fun than the comp arch class offered.

Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#24

Post by Mountain_Skies »

mrandish wrote: post #17
markus_zhang wrote: post #12

I think Computer Architecture can be designed around legacy but fun hardwares. So instead of using some fantasy machines such as LC-3, students can directly get into the world of 6502. First semester: mostly concentrated on 6502 with a full 6502 CPU emulator as the final project. Second semester: concentrate on a real machine such as the NES. Students need to learn to improve their emulators to program in it (so, do…

I like your idea, though I'm probably biased because I learned computers and computer programming starting with zero experience, zero knowledge and nothing but a 4K, sub-1 Mhz Radio Shack Color Computer. Unfortunately, in 1980 there were virtually no real instructional materials available on microcomputers. Learning consisted mostly of just trying things, typing in listings from low-budget hobbyist 'zines and compari…

There's a YouTube channel called CocoTown where he's building a Moon Patrol clone for the Color Computer in assembly from scratch. He's making good use of MAME and other modern tools. Can't imagine how less pleasant it would have been creating something like that using just EDTASM back in the day.

Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#25

Post by markus_zhang »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #24
mrandish wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your idea, though I'm probably biased because I learned computers and computer programming starting with zero experience, zero knowledge and nothing but a 4K, sub-1 Mhz Radio Shack Color Computer. Unfortunately, in 1980 there were virtually no real instructional materials available on microcomputers. Learning consisted mostly of just trying things, typing in listings from low-budget hobbyist 'zines and compari…

There's a YouTube channel called CocoTown where he's building a Moon Patrol clone for the Color Computer in assembly from scratch. He's making good use of MAME and other modern tools. Can't imagine how less pleasant it would have been creating something like that using just EDTASM back in the day.

That's really a nice project. I had a thought a few years ago that if someone wants to be a game programmer, one idea is to find a hero (e.g. Rebecca Heinemann or John Carmack) and replicate some games they made, aka walk their roads on retro platforms.

Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#26

Post by selcuka »

markus_zhang wrote: post #12

I think Computer Architecture can be designed around legacy but fun hardwares. So instead of using some fantasy machines such as LC-3, students can directly get into the world of 6502. First semester: mostly concentrated on 6502 with a full 6502 CPU emulator as the final project. Second semester: concentrate on a real machine such as the NES. Students need to learn to improve their emulators to program in it (so, do…

When I was in college, we took a hybrid approach. We used a real CPU (6809), but instead of using a real computer (since 6809-based computers were not as common as Z80 or 6502-based ones), we used an educational kit designed and built by the professor who taught the course. This kit could be programmed via the serial console using the built-in debugger (or monitor, as they were called back then).

Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#27

Post by markus_zhang »

nateglims wrote: post #23
markus_zhang wrote: post #12

I think Computer Architecture can be designed around legacy but fun hardwares. So instead of using some fantasy machines such as LC-3, students can directly get into the world of 6502. First semester: mostly concentrated on 6502 with a full 6502 CPU emulator as the final project. Second semester: concentrate on a real machine such as the NES. Students need to learn to improve their emulators to program in it (so, do…

I did an EE degree and the sophmore firmware course used an 8 bit PIC (or a motorola 6800 a few years before). About a third of the semester was entirely in PIC assembly, then C, then advanced stuff in C. I think your idea is pretty viable, and sounds more fun than the comp arch class offered.

Thanks. It's going to put a hell lot of work on the professors so it's probably more suitable for some people like Gustav (the pikuma guy).

Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#29

Post by astrange »

markus_zhang wrote: post #12

I think Computer Architecture can be designed around legacy but fun hardwares. So instead of using some fantasy machines such as LC-3, students can directly get into the world of 6502. First semester: mostly concentrated on 6502 with a full 6502 CPU emulator as the final project. Second semester: concentrate on a real machine such as the NES. Students need to learn to improve their emulators to program in it (so, do…

6502 would give them a dose of reality, but I think teaching people by having them program an 8-bit CISC chip is cruel. There's so many asymmetries that get in the way.

(Also, I don't think anyone actually likes NES games except for nostalgia, but this might just be because square waves make my ears hurt.)

Re: Elite on the 6502: The original 6502 assembly source, heavily commented

#30

Post by throwaway81523 »

"This site contains the original 1980s source code for the classic space game Elite, with every single line documented and (for the most part) explained. It is literally the original 6502 assembly source code, just heavily commented."

For those wondering what Elite was.

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