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GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

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Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#31

Post by moffkalast »

asdff wrote: post #13
moffkalast wrote: post #2

> "What we need is a computer that isn’t labor-saving, but which increases the work for us to do." — John Cage Arguably both are needed. The kind that replaces the mindless repetitive work (e.g. dishwasher, roomba) so we have more time to focus on the kind that lets us do more than before (e.g. an orbital satelite, 3D printer). There are only 24 hours in a day and you can't do more without doing less first.

That is not the tradeoff being made. When you go from a home without a dishwasher to one with a dishwasher, you don't work more or less hours as an engineer at JPL. You work the same hours. Likewise for someone who does their housecleaning by hand or one that hires housecleaners, the latter doesn't start working 50 hour shifts at the office in response. Then the question is what are people doing with the extra time?…

Perhaps that was a bad example since it's too much of a person-by-person thing (for myself I can definitely say I get more done if I don't have to spend hours on chores), but the fact that we can as a society actually do anything at all beyond just surviving is down to tractors and combine harvesters, so 98% of us don't have to work in food production anymore. The base level of complete chore automation that we've apparently all forgotten about. The fact that a job at JPL even exists is down to that and to manufacturing automation afterwards.

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#32

Post by nonameiguess »

asdff wrote: post #13
moffkalast wrote: post #2

> "What we need is a computer that isn’t labor-saving, but which increases the work for us to do." — John Cage Arguably both are needed. The kind that replaces the mindless repetitive work (e.g. dishwasher, roomba) so we have more time to focus on the kind that lets us do more than before (e.g. an orbital satelite, 3D printer). There are only 24 hours in a day and you can't do more without doing less first.

That is not the tradeoff being made. When you go from a home without a dishwasher to one with a dishwasher, you don't work more or less hours as an engineer at JPL. You work the same hours. Likewise for someone who does their housecleaning by hand or one that hires housecleaners, the latter doesn't start working 50 hour shifts at the office in response. Then the question is what are people doing with the extra time?…

You say this with quite a bit of confidence, and I can see in a later comment you've got some personal experience. I do as well, but it totally contradicts what you're saying. I had to get rid of my dishwasher last year because it had been installed incorrectly and leaked without us realizing it until it had caused quite a bit of water damage. I had to wait to get that fixed before installing a new dishwasher, and that took about three months. I washed all dishes by hand during that time. Like you, I tend to wash all dishes as I generate them, but I don't live alone, and my wife does not, so that didn't make much of a difference, and washing dishes by hand did, in fact, take an hour or so every day.

Now that I have a new dishwasher and don't need to do that any more, I'm not on TikTok, but actually do mostly just work more.

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#33

Post by TZubiri »

Other unimaginative pitches I hear every day:

- We will use LLMs to create/summarize documents. - "You are StartupAI, an AI that is an expert in X and answers questions about X" - An LLM that I can replace an employee with and fire them.

As with any revolution, we get to revise a whole generation of software and see how we can retrofit or rethink the solution/product. If you seek to build something novel, we will have to actually be creative, not minimally apply the technology to immediately extract value.

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#34

Post by jedberg »

Of all the things I do with AI, art is probably the one I do the most. When you create written content on the internet, "the algorithm" rewards you more if you add art to it. I am not an artist, but I can write good.

So when I'm done writing, I pop over to my AI image generator, describe a few images I want, pop them into the post, and away I go! And then boom, greater engagement. As an added bonus, I don't have to worry about copyright, because at the moment copyright law considers me the creator if I modify it or the AI (which makes it uncopywriteable). So I'm in the clear there (for now).

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#35

Post by Filligree »

Jordan-117 wrote: post #26
skybrian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they fill the screen with 20 variations nearly instantly? If so, I'd like to see that.

There are already efficient models that can generate single images in real time as fast as you can type the prompt. I wonder if you could tweak this approach to instead generate a page full of static thumbnails on submitting a query (using different seeds for each result), and then upscale the desired image when clicked.

It won’t be the same image once you upscale it. Moreover, while the fast generators do exist, they’re lower quality. That doesn’t mean just resolution—it also means comprehension and prompt understanding, so upon running the same prompt through a better AI you’ll get something entirely different.

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#36

Post by moffkalast »

asdff wrote: post #19
skybrian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you can pretty easily use more dishes with less effort? If you end up spending more time on other chores, that's up to you.

Having lived in apartments with and without dishwashers its not as much of a time savings as you might realize. the dishwasher needs a degree of maintenance. Dishes have to be loaded precariously in a way to effectively wash them from the sprayer jets. Some dishes have to be washed by hand still. Everything needs rinsing and scraping. Its a modern dishwasher so that means its too weak to dry dishes on dry cycle to sk…

> Everything needs rinsing and scraping.

If you say that into a mirror five times an angry Canadian named Alec will show up behind you and start grumbling about prewash powder. It's amazing how absolutely nobody knows how to use a dishwasher properly.

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#37

Post by Filligree »

spencerflem wrote: post #21
bobxmax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a great tool if you aren't an ornery artist who refuses to adapt to new ways and means.

most ai art is bland and worthless and has no meaning behind it. im not postmodern enough to say its all the struggle, but regardless of if AI us used or not I expect the artist to have some idea of what they're trying to do or say, and typing a sentence into a box ain't it

95% of everything is shit. That doesn’t make the remaining five percent worthless.

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#38

Post by macrocosmos »

asdff wrote: post #19
skybrian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you can pretty easily use more dishes with less effort? If you end up spending more time on other chores, that's up to you.

Having lived in apartments with and without dishwashers its not as much of a time savings as you might realize. the dishwasher needs a degree of maintenance. Dishes have to be loaded precariously in a way to effectively wash them from the sprayer jets. Some dishes have to be washed by hand still. Everything needs rinsing and scraping. Its a modern dishwasher so that means its too weak to dry dishes on dry cycle to sk…

I had a broken dishwasher with a part I didn't feel like replacing for a few years that I only used as a drying rack.

I replaced it recently because the door hinges broke as well. I now only run it once a week just to keep the parts moving. It is so much easier to just wash dishes as I go. And they're way cleaner when I wash them no matter how empty I keep the washer or how I arrange the dishes. Oh and I use it sometimes after I have guests over.

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#39

Post by TZubiri »

skybrian wrote: post #6

> Increases the work for us to do This sounds like a video game to me, and we do have lots of them. How should generated AI images be presented? I think of it as wandering in Borge's library of babel. Maybe it looks like Google's image search, or like Minecraft? Unfortunately, current AI image generators aren't fast enough to do it interactively.

As long as you are still thinking of "images" and especially images as the product, you are not being creative.

A really creative and productive use is to start talking in terms of what specifically the images contain, what information they transmit and what purpose they serve:

"Providing training for pilots with an infinite amount of flight under distress material."

"Show how real estate projects would look like after they would be finished."

etc..

Re: GenAI Art Is the Least Imaginative Use of AI Imaginable

#40

Post by gedy »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #29
gedy wrote: post #5

I'm what people who know me call a "creative person", but generative AI for images and especially music really is a terrific tool. > What if the point of art is that we actually make it? It seems the author's point is the struggle and effort is what makes it worthwhile, but I kind of disagree. I used to pour a ton of time, effort, and heart into making something I wanted to see or hear, but unfortunately the results…

Same. Also, I spend just as much time curating what I consider to be the right elements of the Suno music I generate as I did before GenAI. I just get a lot more mileage out of it. Consequently, when I generate that final cut, I feel a strong sense of ownership over it, even though I understand clearly that I didn't "make the music". I described it. Doesn't stop me from listening to it over and over again and feeling…

Yeah agreed, I think issues come from people's misunderstanding (and likely companies misrepresenting) what "AI" does.

It's not correct to knock down creators using it as some magic box that just pumps out worthless "AI Slop" on its own. If you have no taste, no ideas, AI won't turn you into a fine artist. But that's similar to buying an expensive camera won't make you a great photographer.

Conversely, AI is also not just an English alternative UI for perfectly understanding what you want and make something to your exacting specifications.

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