Curious to know your revenue model as you advance. Are you planning on 'referral fees' for presented loan offers? And would that approach threaten your appearance as source of neutral information? I recently bought a house and used this[1] mortgage calculator, which was the best one I found. I liked how you can pivot from calculating on monthly income, purchase price, or a total monthly payment. An easy way to play w…
Thanks for attaching the link. We do generate referral fee from leads (we receive the same fee regardless of the lender so we maintain financial neutrality) but we're much more concerned with getting the user experience right (ie the second part of your note).
SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
31–40 of 46 posts
Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#32This is certainly an area that needs clarity badly. Banks are clearly not disinterested parties when it comes to Financial Calculators (just like your Financial Advisor's Retirement Calculator is biased toward products they can sell you) Once you nail this one, you should do the same for owning 'working' assets. Which is to say what sort of rate of return could one get on their money if they created an LLC, bought a…
Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#33These calculations are a pretty black and white implementation of finance concepts taught in an introductory course. The most complicated math involves compounded growth and amortization. Granted, the data entry and presentation are well-laid out, but I could make a similarly easy to use Excel spreadsheet in 30 minutes with the ability to control all the model's drivers.
So I agree with others who have pointed out that you have made a very usable, albeit overly simple, financial calculator, but that's a fairly low barrier to entry product given the ease of the math and concepts.
As a real estate finance guy, I get asked for advice on home-buying all the time. The calculations are easy. The real value in my advice, or any financial advice for that matter, is help thinking through the assumptions that are used to power a financial model, not actually doing the math itself.
The drivers of your model are: 1) assumed comparable rent 2) home value appreciation 3) rental appreciation 4) financing (size, rate, amortization, and term) 5) annual expenses (I assume you inflate these at 2% too, but it's not listed) 6) and cost of capital (what you call "return on savings")
Right now, a majority of those variables are treated as an afterthought when they should be the main event. Therefore, I find the results of this calculator to be somewhat dubious. Said differently, I don't think this is going to help laypeople make better, more informed investment decisions because all you've got is a good-looking "garbage in, garbage out" financial model.
My suggestion is to guide people to make more informed assumptions that feed into your mechanical valuation tool. That would create real value. For example, challenge them to consider the determinants of appreciation. Will demand for the region in question outpace supply over the next 10 years? If so, appreciation will probably exceed inflation. Ask questions like these and based on the responses, convert them to quantitative inputs. [Admittedly, my question was probably too technical.]
Separately, your decision metric lacks objectivity. You present the "breakeven" point: the number of years that it would take for owning a home to be better than renting in gross dollars. Why not just ask upfront, "How many years do you expect to live in the same home?" and then give a definitive answer (e.g., "you should rent"). Even better, you could ask a number of questions to determine expected hold period. Age. "How long have you and your spouse lived in the region?" "How long have you and your spouse had the same job?" "Do you have family in the region?" "Is job mobility important to you?" Then convert these to a range of expected hold periods.
As you know, home buying is different from a typical investment in that it is a consumption good as much as it is a financial vehicle. There's plenty of emotion to contradict logic, if not more. If I find a house I have to have, I'll make this model give me the conclusion I want it to give. That's what I mean by lacking objectivity. Worst case, I'll convince myself I'll stay in the region for 5, 12, 17 years, whatever your mechanical tool tells me.
My heuristic right now to friends and family: if you don't need mobility (job or otherwise), buy and borrow as much long-term debt as possible at these incredibly low rates. If inflation and interest rates spike, you'll make out really well. If inflation and interest rates stay where they are, you won't be much worse off. If you need job mobility, rent.
Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#34Let's pass on housing bubbles for a second. Brokerage fees are the priceyist piece of the average housing purchase, something like 6% or so. But it seems that here these get rolled into the asset cost, the fees mentioned here are the financing fees.
Now we can say, "Yeah, that is another wrinkle and we have to fix that." But it's wrinkles all the way down. These decisions are complex because there are so many options.
Which goes to the key sentence in the post: "One place, where you can answer all of your questions, address all of your concerns and remove the anxiety created by unfamiliar jargon and complex financial consequences." This as plausible as one place to answer all your web development questions without all that technical jargon.
Mortgage finance is complicated because there are lots of options. The jargon represents those concepts. Grok the jargon, grok the concept, you're starting to get it. Want to understand without all that nasty jargon? Look, 99% of technical and financial writing could be more clear, and definitions and motivation of the jargon are generally lousy. But the jargon is there for a reason. I find claims to clarify jargon a lot more credible than claims to obviate it.
If the idea is to help some one get to a smart decision about a fixed or floating loan, without them actually understanding the difference and the implications and the various risks, I don't see it. You might be getting them into a better spot. But if they don't understand what they've done, they haven't made a financial decision, they've made a management decision about who they are going to trust. But that is essentially the same model as that of every calculator provider.
Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#35Anyone who does not know their marginal tax rate has no business borrowing $100K's to buy a house.
The fact that such lack of financial knowledge is socially acceptable is a large contributing factor to the housing bubble; Buyers did not understand elementary finance.
Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#36This is a tool for analyzing the _financing_ of the purchase. But half of the U.S. is underwater because they got the _pricing_ wrong. Let's pass on housing bubbles for a second. Brokerage fees are the priceyist piece of the average housing purchase, something like 6% or so. But it seems that here these get rolled into the asset cost, the fees mentioned here are the financing fees. Now we can say, "Yeah, that is anot…
Please also understand that we've only just taken the first steps on this product. There are several more questions to be answered, and more interactive pages explaining the jargon, allowing users to visualize the variables that go into various (complex) decisions.
We also know that what we've embarked on is not something simple: answering complex financial questions, and personalizing them to an individual's needs is no trivial task.
However, we think we can build this out. What we released today is just the tip of the iceberg... plenty more to come shortly.
Hope this helps. And as always, if you have any comments or suggestions feel free to get in touch with us (info@smartasset.com) any time.
Thanks!
Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#37tl;dr This is a black box financial model driven by naive assumptions. Anyone can teach themselves how to recreate these calculations in Excel. The real value comes from helping people make better assumptions to drive the model instead of performing the calcs. Otherwise, it's just "garbage in, garbage out." These calculations are a pretty black and white implementation of finance concepts taught in an introductory co…
Will you explain this further?
As I see it - if interest rates spike (and incomes stay the some), buyers will be able to borrow less, not more money at constant monthly payments. So housing values should go down? What am I missing?
Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#38Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#39This is a tool for analyzing the _financing_ of the purchase. But half of the U.S. is underwater because they got the _pricing_ wrong. Let's pass on housing bubbles for a second. Brokerage fees are the priceyist piece of the average housing purchase, something like 6% or so. But it seems that here these get rolled into the asset cost, the fees mentioned here are the financing fees. Now we can say, "Yeah, that is anot…
@chernevik -- thanks for the comments. W.r.t. the 6% "cost of sale" that is actually baked into the numbers. Granted it is fixed at 6% and cannot be changed (something we will allow shortly). Please also understand that we've only just taken the first steps on this product. There are several more questions to be answered, and more interactive pages explaining the jargon, allowing users to visualize the variables that…
- the ability to change some of the assumptions, for example, 2% return on the savings is not what I have in my records for the past 10 years.
- a small pie/stacked graph with where the money is going each month. 25% for mortgage, 25% for expenses, xx% for taxes, etc. This would provide a "fast check" for visual people.
I would love to have such tool for the German market :)
Re: SmartAsset, the Financial Calculator Killer
#40tl;dr This is a black box financial model driven by naive assumptions. Anyone can teach themselves how to recreate these calculations in Excel. The real value comes from helping people make better assumptions to drive the model instead of performing the calcs. Otherwise, it's just "garbage in, garbage out." These calculations are a pretty black and white implementation of finance concepts taught in an introductory co…
> If inflation and interest rates spike, you'll make out really well. Will you explain this further? As I see it - if interest rates spike (and incomes stay the some), buyers will be able to borrow less , not more money at constant monthly payments. So housing values should go down? What am I missing?