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Do Insects Feel Pain?

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Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#21

Post by b112 »

colordrops wrote: post #13
baxtr wrote: post #9

I think a more relevant question is: do mosquitoes feel bad about killing humans? Billions of us, most of them children.

Mosquitos are only one type of countless types of insects, most of which are harmless or even beneficial to humans. In any case if you are going to have such a war-like attitude, it's the humans that deserve to be destroyed by the animals, not the other way around. We are the ones fucking up the planet. And we kill almost 100 billion animals a year for food, and who knows how many others from other human activities.

Humans are animals, very successful ones. The only reason other animals are kept in check, is because they eat their food source until there's too little left to sustain them.

Goats will eat everything bare, locusts destroy everything, beetles ruin forests, beavers dam rivers changing ecosystems so much, it can be seen from space.

Every single lifeform on this planet expands, grows, multiplies without restraint. Animals don't csre one wit about conservation, or balance, or restraint. They never consider such things, ever, beyond filling their belly.

You act as if other animals are somehow noble, yet it is only humans that take deep, strong thought and care about the environment.

Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#22

Post by HPsquared »

colordrops wrote: post #13
baxtr wrote: post #9

I think a more relevant question is: do mosquitoes feel bad about killing humans? Billions of us, most of them children.

Mosquitos are only one type of countless types of insects, most of which are harmless or even beneficial to humans. In any case if you are going to have such a war-like attitude, it's the humans that deserve to be destroyed by the animals, not the other way around. We are the ones fucking up the planet. And we kill almost 100 billion animals a year for food, and who knows how many others from other human activities.

Humans are just another animal though, a lot of animals change the local environment.

Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#23

Post by Nasrudith »

sandworm101 wrote: post #14
Clubber wrote: post #8

I suspect most living creatures feel pain; it's a survival mechanism.

Pain only makes sense if an animal can learn. It is a teaching mechanism to modify future behavior. A very simple creature may act purely automatically, not even instinct but raw dna-programmed responses. Pain makes little sense there as there is no learning to be done. I doubt bacteria feel pain.

It sounds weaselish but it depends on what you count as pain. If you count 'response to injury stimulus' then it just needs to be a productive action in response to the injury. Plants feel pain by that definition. Bizarrely plants can be anesthetized which freezes autonomic responses like rotating to face sunlight or opening of flowers. For an example of a useful injury response without learning: something like 'invest energy in upping the poison production if something bites my leaves' would be a useful response with no learning involved.

Of course under that definition you could call alarms that go off when a window is busted a form of pain for the building. Which I suppose highlights just how loose our definitions really are. I'm no pain semantics expert but I expect rightfully or wrongly our definitions of pain are animal neurology centered.

Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#24

Post by Yawrehto »

baxtr wrote: post #9

I think a more relevant question is: do mosquitoes feel bad about killing humans? Billions of us, most of them children.

It's a bit unfair to blame mosquitoes (who are also only a small portion of insects). As far as I'm aware, the diseases hitch a ride in mosquitoes, not harming them typically. The mosquitoes aren't trying to pass it on; it gets them no benefit (in fact it would arguably be detrimental; fewer humans to feed on because they died means less food).

Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#25

Post by b112 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #14
Clubber wrote: post #8

I suspect most living creatures feel pain; it's a survival mechanism.

Pain only makes sense if an animal can learn. It is a teaching mechanism to modify future behavior. A very simple creature may act purely automatically, not even instinct but raw dna-programmed responses. Pain makes little sense there as there is no learning to be done. I doubt bacteria feel pain.

Pain also works to mitigate and prevent damage. It serves an immediate purpose, stop the pain! Something bad is happening!

Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#26

Post by ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 »

galleywest200 wrote: post #11
can16358p wrote: post #3

I never intentionally harm a single insect... except flies and mosquitos. I hope they do feel the pain as they deserve it! Other than that I respect all of them.

I used to never harm insects until I found ticks and mosquitos on my dog...So now I kill ticks and mosquitos. I like spiders though. I have had one living in my bathroom window for about six months now. It seems to be eating other spiders that try to crawl in based on the contents of its web. I consider this rent payment and allow it to stay.

> I used to never harm insects

Humans frequently kill insects unconsciously. Take a peek at a parking lot next to a river in warmer months, absolve yourself of guilt.

Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#28

Post by frutiger »

can16358p wrote: post #3

I never intentionally harm a single insect... except flies and mosquitos. I hope they do feel the pain as they deserve it! Other than that I respect all of them.

I used to feel the same way but watching a flock of birds spend 30 minutes picking at every wriggling thing they see crawling in the dirt changed my perspective.

Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#29

Post by kjellsbells »

Supposing that it was conclusively proven that they did not. Would it still be ethical to kill them?

The Jain religion has quite a bit to say on this topic:

https://voices.uchicago.edu/religionculture/2017/11/22/atten...

Side note: the author also notes a very unusual consideration of electricity as consisting of a living force, that should therefore not be used needlessly.

Re: Do Insects Feel Pain?

#30

Post by jtsnow »

sandworm101 wrote: post #14
Clubber wrote: post #8

I suspect most living creatures feel pain; it's a survival mechanism.

Pain only makes sense if an animal can learn. It is a teaching mechanism to modify future behavior. A very simple creature may act purely automatically, not even instinct but raw dna-programmed responses. Pain makes little sense there as there is no learning to be done. I doubt bacteria feel pain.

Wouldn't modifying current behavior be sufficient to justify the existence of pain? The mechanism can be a useful adaptation even if a single organism cannot learn. Maybe the default state of bacteria is pain and they can only relieve it temporarily. The ones that survive to multiply are the ones best adapted to relieving pain.
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